Re: Re Neat Trick

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Chuck - when last I heard, fairly recently, Andrew was a graduate student with Carol Wilson at Rancho Santa Ana Botanic Garden - a*@cgu.edu. Even if he has now finished up there, Carol should know his current contact info - c*@cgu.edu. One of the thoughts about the cause of the Neat Trick pattern was that it could be caused by a transposable element running wild and causing mutations more or less at random that ended in loss of pigment (and maybe cell death according to John & Bob - in which case getting yellow dashes was perhaps more a wish than a reality). Like B&J we have also found it to be a reluctant grower and lost it some years ago. Bob

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Bob and Judy Hollingworth

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From: "Chuck Chapman i*@aim.com [sibrob]" <s*@yahoogroups.com>
To: s*@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2015 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re Neat Trick

Â

I would suspect not. I have seen point mutations of this type (with
distorted cells) and if I remember correctly, there isn't any pigment
in them.

Does anyone have contact information for Andrew Wheeler? I haven't
gotten reply from e-mail address I have.

Chuck Chapman


-----Original Message-----
From: J*@aol.com [sibrob] <s*@yahoogroups.com>
To: sibrob <s*@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Mar 14, 2015 9:35 am
Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re Neat Trick






Chuck, I see your point. Is there ever any pigment in these deformed
cells? Marty






-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Chapman i*@aim.com [sibrob]
<s*@yahoogroups.com>
To: sibrob <s*@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Mar 14, 2015 9:00 am
Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re Neat Trick


Â



Part of why I was wondering is that there is distortion on falls If
not a virus, and it always occurs, then it isn't a mutation in
pigment production chain, but at development of tissue genes. A
change that affects development of cells in such a way to prevent
pigment genes from acting. thus distortion. Pigment production genes
don't affect cell size or shape. Only composition of the molecules
involved in the anthocyanin production. This can't change any cell
function.

Chuck Chapman

-----Original Message-----
From: J*@aol.com [sibrob] <s*@yahoogroups.com>
To: sibrob <s*@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Mar 14, 2015 8:47 am
Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re Neat Trick






I am sure that Andrew Wheeler got F1s from Neat Trick showing the Neat
Trick pattern. Don't remember any having yellow underneath, but there
have been.Â

Also I agree with John Coble that the pattern is made by a fault in
the
pigmentation and it results in deformed falls every time. This same
pattern occured in Louise Bellagamba's Appaloosa Blue. The deformity
was not as pronounced as in Neat Trick but it was there.Â

Marty Schafer







-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Chapman i*@aim.com [sibrob]
<s*@yahoogroups.com>
To: sibrob <s*@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Mar 14, 2015 8:32 am
Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re Neat Trick


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Thanks for all the information.

I'm trying to sort out if genetic or possibly a virus. If genetic a
F1 backcross or an F2 should recover pattern. If can't be recovered
then a virus.

Chuck Chapman


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Hollingworth c*@att.net [sibrob]
<s*@yahoogroups.com>
To: sibrob <s*@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Mar 14, 2015 12:01 am
Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re Neat Trick




Re Neat Trick, I vaguely remember hearing some years ago that someone
(Andy Wheeler??) had crosse it with a yellow and came up with a
flower
with yellow dashes on a blue ground. Sounds interesting if that memory
is correct. Bob.Â


Bob and Judy Hollingworth






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From: "Ken Walkup k*@cornell.edu [sibrob]"
<s*@yahoogroups.com>
To: "s*@yahoogroups.com" <s*@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2015 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re Neat Trick




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Chuck,
I think I recall hearing that John White had produced another iris
with
the same pattern, this one a wine red. Maybe Sharon Whitney might
know
about this?
I'll go back and look at my records, and see what I might still have.Â
I've lost a lot over the last four years due to a protracted move and
resulting neglect.
Ken

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From: s*@yahoogroups.com <s*@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of
Chuck Chapman i*@aim.com [sibrob] <s*@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 4:40:03 PM
To: s*@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re Neat Trick
Â

Â
Thanks Ken.
A sib cross or back cross would be needed to see if anything crops up
as recessive. If you still have any seed I'd be interested in trying
to
recover 'Neat Trick" pattern as a recessive.

Chuck Chapman


-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Walkup k*@cornell.edu [sibrob] <s*@yahoogroups.com>
To: sibrob <s*@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 12, 2015 4:19 pm
Subject: Re: [sibrob] Re Neat Trick






Chuck,
I did the cross Neat Trick x Kita No Seiza. Fertility seemed normal,
but none of the progeny looked like Neat Trick and none had six falls
like Kita No Seiza. That seems pretty normal to me for this type of
cross. I can't say offhand whether I ever sib crossed the progeny,
but
I'm pretty sure I still have descendants of this line, maybe only as
seeds.
Ken Walkup

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From: s*@yahoogroups.com <s*@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of
Chuck Chapman i*@aim.com [sibrob] <s*@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 4:04:52 PM
To: s*@yahoogroups.com; s*@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [sibrob] Re Neat Trick
Â

Â
Does anyone have experience trying Neat Trick as a parent?


Chuck Chapman