Re: Red SA's and more SAGE stuff

DYNAMITE was listed earlier as a cv that had been found unproductive of SA offspring in the first generation and was suggested for use in the "non-shelved" category--provided one can grow it and bloom seedlings from it.
 
Concerning Schreiner lines, no mention has been made until recently of the Schreiner reds in general.  Since the only input we've had about their reds has been about Dynamite, this is not likely to mean *all* Schreiner reds would fall into the same pattern.  We've noted a diversity of types and percentages among the Schreiner blues, so "Schreiner blues" has been dropped as a descriptive category as well.  See below--
 
Among current SA's, Rick Tasco's SOLAR FIRE is a red bicolor with the falls brilliant red in the published photo.
 
For this coming year, the general instruction to the SAGE participants is to do this:
 
--for the crosses of non-SA's with SA's to use the pollen of the SA parent (in order to leave the SA available for the other type cross that involves two SA's) on two general types of non SA's--those that are known breeders of SA's or else have distinct "shelves" or ledges under the beard--and/or show the proto-horn as in Advance Guard and many other cv's.
 
--AND those that are known NON-breeders of SA, or produce very few SA's.  That list is longer in the SAGE post some time back in which the 2004 program is set forth.
 
The short list is the one of SA breeders and have-shelves.  We are dependent this year on the observations of our southernmost members in their gardens and elsewhere for specific names of widely grown cv's that fit this class.  Three names that have been mentioned are YAQUINA BLUE, DEVONSHIRE CREAM, SPIRIT WORLD and SWINGTOWN based in the case of YB on the report from Suttons, on Dev Cream on the report of SA traits showing up when moved to different (higher) soil pH locations and Bill Burleson's experience with the cv, and with Swingtown on the basis of what is showing in photos of the flower.  SPIRIT WORLD is known to produce at least some SA's and has even produced a "SA-break"--not involving Austin ancestry.
 
Several other photos have been posted, mostly by Bill Burleson, of varieties which look like they have shelves.  Can any of you in the early season south areas check these about which photos suggest shelves to see if they are present?  It is hoped that we will be using the best quality varieties we can identify.
 
It can be further said--*most* cv's will produce at least some SA's when bred to them.  Hopefully our experience this year will allow us as a group to agree on a few particular varieties for each of the two categories for use in 2005 so that we will have large numbers from the *same* crosses.
 
For 2004 our best bet is to go after the *same type* of crosses, using the splitter of "shelved" and "not shelved--and perhaps known not to be SA producing" parents.
 
Again--please, if you are in the earliest areas, look for shelved and non-shelved varieties and report them.  Your input will be a major factor in setting the pattern to be used next year--and to the extent possible -- this year as well.
 
The reason for going after the "non-shelved" and "non-productive of SA's" is to try to identify or isolate what it is that makes these irises different than the general run.
 
The reason for going after the definitely shelved varieties, or varieties definitely known to be productive of SA's-is to get counts of each level of SA traits produced, and to see if it can be understoon why these varieties differ so strongly from the opposite group.
 
If this is confusing or unclear ask me--I will summarize the four types of crosses in a different format or manner.
 
Neil Mogensen 

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