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Hi Steve and Tom,
Thanks for the replies!! Unfortunately, the
science does not seem "hard" in that the rules are not clear-cut as to how many
specimens must be removed from nature and the obvious ethical concerns that
causes and the quality of the description does not need to be well done based on
Tom's post below. Honestly, this is a huge shock to me. This
has been very informative for me however and I appreciate the input from the
true experts!!
I do have one other question and that regards
authorship and how it is applied? As a basic lab scientist who has
published a few papers I generally rely on three important areas that are
required for a manuscript to be written and authorship to be granted. One
must either do the science (or some % of it....a vague reality nowadays when
science is far more collaborative and authorships are necessary for grants to be
obtained and tenure to be achieved, etc), substantially be resposnible for the
ideas underlying the science or write the manuscript. Ideally any author
would have done portions of 2 of the 3 above. Indeed, these are not just
my rules, but the rules that are set forth by the Univ. of Pittsburgh for
authorship on any published manuscript coming from the institution.
Obviously, obtaining the outside funding from NIH, NSF or a foundation is
necessary, but likely the senior author has done that by default.
So, I am wondering how authorship is determined for
botanical descriptions such as we are talking about here? Again, this is
way outside my area of research and publishing, but it is an interesting topic
for those of us interested in how these new species get published in the first
place.
Thanks for taking the time as I realize that not a
lot of people have an interest in something this technical.....or maybe they do
since we all rely on people like Tom to provide the species names for the plants
in our collections :o)
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From:
S*@ExoticRainforest.com
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:27
AM
Subject: Re: [Aroid-l] New Species
Anthurium, sect. Belolonchium
Thanks Tom! I had really hoped you would add
something to this discussion. So Dan, there is your definitive answer
from the best expert on aroid species there is.
Steve
Lucas
Tom Croat wrote:
Steve:
Pass this on to Dan Devor! .
Finding decent type specimen is actually one of the most difficult tasks of
a botanist. There are lots of new species floating around but you need
more than a live plant which does not count for anything according to the
rules. It has to be herbarium material preserved in a recognized
herbarium. Moreover, I insist that the type be widely distributed,
meaning a bare minimum of three specimens, one on each continent. This
is to avoid the risk of losing or damaging the specimens by sending them
through the mail. Too often specimens, particularly those of large
plants, are collected in sets of one (useless in my opinion). When I
collect and suspect that something is new I try to make as many specimens as
possible. Naturally a good description is nice and commendable but
legally there are no demands on the quality of the description, unlike the
demand that a collection be preserved. I try to make excellent descriptions
with lots of photos as well. Aroids are confusing enough when you have
excellent information so it all helps.
Tom
From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com
[aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com]
On Behalf Of
ExoticRainforest
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:16
PM
To: Discussion of aroids
Subject: [Aroid-l] New Species
Anthurium, sect. Belolonchium
Hi Daniel, I've
been corresponding with Beth about this plant for some time and will attempt
to give you an answer. The type specimen needs to be a plant with
known collection data (elevation, forest type, epiphyte or terrestrial) that
has been fully described, ie, roots, stem, internodes, cataphylls, blades,
veins, inflorescence, infructescence and details on the female and male
flowers as well as pollen with detailed information on both the adaxial
(upper) surface as well as the abaxial (lower) surface of the blade
including the midrib, primary lateral veins and tertiary veins. The
people at the Quito Botanical
Garden apparently did not collect field notes
when they rescued their specimens which were in danger of being destroyed so
that data does not now exist. They have given Beth an approximate
location where it was found and Beth is now working with Dr. Tom Croat to
find it in the wild and do the necessary field work to satisfy the
publication of a scientific description of a new species. The senior
botanist also grants the plant its name. One complete leaf must be
dried and properly preserved so information can be compared to other known
species specimens. A dried blade may dry a different color than known
species or exhibit features not easily seen on a living specimen, thus the
need for the comparison. All that info plus the dried specimen and a
living specimen known as the "type specimen" must be deposited in a
recognized botanical garden collection. Of course, Tom will do that
work with Beth working as the junior co-author and the dried material and
type specimen deposited in the Missouri Botanical
Garden living collection of aroid species.
Genetic analysis is not normally done to publish a scientific
description. The new problem in botany is far too many genetic
botanists have little to zero idea what any species looks like in the wild
state including natural variations, they only know how to determine a
species by using genetic information which is virtually worthless to a field
botanist such as Dr. Croat. Field botany is regrettably a dieing breed
of scientist! If you are armed only with genetic data, how in the
world do you know how to recognize a plant in the wild? You can't
easily do a genetic analysis in the middle of an Ecuadorian rain
forest.
Hope that helps.
Steve Lucas
www.ExoticRainforest.com
Daniel
Devor wrote:
Hi Beth, Perhaps you
could explain to a total novice who has never field collected plants what
you mean by collecting the "type specimen" and then showing us pictures of
plants that are already collected, flowering and fruiting (maybe I mesread
and this is a different plant)?? It seems the people at the Quito
Botanical Gardens could, if they chose to, compile a complete description of
the plant in question, including a proper genetic analysis if they deemed it
appropriate. Are you saying that all that is left to do is find the
original field notes for collection
local?
Sorry for the naive questions,
but I'm just curious :o)
----- Original Message -----
From: d*@mail2designer.com
To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com
Sent:
Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:19 AM
Subject:
[Aroid-l] New Species Anthurium, sect.
Belolonchium
Hi folks! As Steve said, I've found this big,
ornate-leafed Anthurium, which Dr. Croat says is undescribed, and for
which I am doing the fieldwork to collect the type specimen and take the
environmental data. He mentioned y'all might like to see it! I took a
number of descriptive photos of the specimens that are growing at the
Quito Botanical Gardens, and for ease of viewing they live in their own
gallery. Here's the address:
http://s256.photobucket.com/albums/hh196/HabloPorArboles/Unknown%20Anthurium/
I
hope to find specimens with mature seed; if not I will have to take
cuttings in order to home-culture the plant. When I have viable seed for
it, I'll post another message for collectors. As a private citizen, it is
very difficult for me to ship live plant matter out of the country, but
they have no problem with germplasm.
Steve: I am not normally in
the coastal forests, but it looks like I'll get an opportunity to go later
this month. I shall certainly keep an eye out for your species, and if I
find it I will take wild photos, and the observations you wanted. I can
also bug EcuaGenera on your behalf.
Cheers!
Beth
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