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RE: [Aroid-l] Names for different forms?

  • Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Names for different forms?
  • From: "Wilbert Hetterscheid" <hetter@xs4all.nl>
  • Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 07:13:27 +0100 (CET)

I KNEW that, I KNEW that................

>It was in honor of your MIND

> Well, it is not my immediate business (the question
> is not addressed to me), but this Australian Brugmansia guy is talking
> about "gargantuan" Amorphophallus&nbsp;cultivar named after
> me................. Somehow there is a (hardly) hidden hint in there. I
> will send a lawyer upon everyone's feeble body who uses my name in
> dishonour.............and this lawyer will clean you out&nbsp;in no
> time!!!!!!!!!!!!! </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=031294016-19032007><FONT face=Arial
> color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=031294016-19032007><FONT face=Arial
> color=#0000ff size=2>Wilbert</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
> BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=nl dir=ltr align=left>
> <HR>
> <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>Van:</B> aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com
> [mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com] <B>Namens
> </B>Hermine<BR><B>Verzonden:</B> zondag 18 maart 2007 19:47<BR><B>Aan:</B>
> Discussion of aroids<BR><B>Onderwerp:</B> RE: [Aroid-l] Names for
> different forms?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
> <DIV></DIV>may I have permission to quote your remarks on cultivar
> naming?<BR><BR>hermine<BR><BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="">I hesitate, with Wilbert and Gearoge's
> great experience present here, to suggest how to move forward! But only
> briefly lol. I don't mind being shot down in flames and will probably
> learn something useful as I am currently up to the armpits in cultivar
> registration for another group (<I>Brugmansia)<BR></I><BR>Given that this
> has got off to false starts, I would strongly advocate not trying to
> create an all-encompassing system first off: that looks to me as though it
> would all fall over again. Adopt the KISS principle and get something
> happening which can be improved in time.<BR><BR>Also remember that
> cultivar registration is voluntary: if the system created is onerous and
> boring to comply with, people won't.<BR><BR>An often-encountered
> misunderstanding is that cultivar registration is equivalent to cultivar
> naming, It is not. A cultivar can be named (i.e.
> the name formally established) in almost any form of publication (bar
> newspapers and a few other things (see 2004 Code)). So if you name a cv in
> a printed nursery catalogue and there is even a one-word description of
> it, and the publication is dated, the name is established provided it
> meets some other technical requirements (which most cultivar epithets do).
> Registration simply means that the ICRA accepts that the cultivar has been
> properly named somewhere and has incorporated it into its Register (which
> can be nothing more elaborate than an excel spreadsheet or even a
> scrap-book!). The Registration process is there to assist the ICRA in
> gathering the information it is responsible for managing.<BR><BR>1. As
> ICRA for Aroids IAS sh/could (I suggest) devote some pages ("ICRA pages")
> at the back of Aroideana to the <U>publication of new cultivar names
> </U>(if this is not happening already -
> sorry, I am out of touch!). Later these pages can also be used to publish
> determinations on the validity of names where issues arise that need a
> decision.<BR><BR>A simple format for publishing a new cv is
> <I><BR></I><BR><B><I>Amorphophallus</I> 'Wilbert's Surprise' </B>&nbsp;
> [PHOTO]<BR><BR><B>Seed parent:</B> <I>A. titanum</I> (un-named clone);
> <B>Pollen parent</B>: <I>A. prainii </I>(un-named
> clone)<BR><BR><B>Hybridiser:</B> George W. Bush; <B>Seedling Parent</B>
> [if different from hybridiser]: Tony Blair<BR><BR>[<B>OR</B>
> <B>Discoverer:</B> John Howard (if the cultivar has in effect been 'found'
> - in the wild, as an accidental seedling, as a sport
> etc]<BR><BR><B>Origin:</B> USA; <B>Introduced:</B> 2006<BR><BR><B>Salient
> features:</B> Spathe xxx, etc etc (keeping this to the minimum necessary
> to capture the distinctive points). <B>Note:</B> <I>this may evolve into
> the bulk of a
> <U>registration form </U>designed around different genera/tribes, but I
> suggest do this when the need arises and when you know exactky why it is
> needed rather than designing elaborate registration forms up
> front.<BR></I><BR><B>Name established:</B> here [or if publishng a
> cultivar whose name is established elsewhere, give the
> reference.]<BR><BR>IMO this covers the key stuff to start with.<BR><BR>If
> this (or something sinmilar) is adopted it may encourage people to publish
> cultuvars in Aroideana rather than in obscure price lists printed off a
> home PC - which is currently permitted under the 2004 Code and is a
> $%^&amp;#@ nuisance!.<BR><BR>2. An online Register is set up to, at first,
> accommodate the new cultivars published in Aroideana with the same
> information and pics, and to which are added all established cultivar
> names in Araceae as they are gathered up by the <U>Registrar</U> and
> anyone assisting over time!<BR><BR>The online registry includes the
> template for publishing new cvs in Aroideana (outlined above), and
> Aroid-L, IAS website and perhaps Dave;s Garden are used to announce the
> deadlines for submission of new cultivars for establishmens in Aroideana
> each year. As the designated ICRA you are, I believe, responsible fior
> providing this service to members and non-members alike.<BR><BR>This seems
> to me to be the minimum necessary to make this work. I have not discussed
> nomenclatural standards and other recomendations of the Code, in the
> belief that f you try to do it all perfectly at once it all just seems too
> much!<BR><BR>Apologes if you have been over all this
> already!!<BR><BR>A<BR><BR>&nbsp;<BR><BR>&nbsp;<BR><BR>&nbsp;<BR><BR>&nbsp;<BR><BR>&nbsp;<BR><BR>&nbsp;<BR><BR>&nbsp;<BR><BR><BR><BR>&nbsp;<BR>
> <DL><BR>
> <DD>From:&nbsp; "Julius Boos" &lt;ju-bo@msn.com&gt;</I><BR>
> <DD>Reply-To:&nbsp; Discussion of aroids
> &lt;aroid-l@gizmoworks.com&gt;</I><BR>
> <DD>To:&nbsp; aroid-l@gizmoworks.com</I><BR>
> <DD>Subject:&nbsp; RE: [Aroid-l] Names for different forms?</I><BR>
> <DD>Date:&nbsp; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 21:33:21 +0000</I><BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&gt;From : Alistair Hay &lt;ajmhay@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;Reply-To : Discussion of aroids &lt;aroid-l@gizmoworks.com&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;Sent : Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:14 AM<BR>
> <DD>&gt;To : aroid-l@gizmoworks.com<BR>
> <DD>&gt;Subject : RE: [Aroid-l] Names for different forms?<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;Dear aroid Friends,<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;First off, thanks to my friends George Schmid, Wilbert
> Hetterschied <BR>
> <DD>&gt;and Alistair Hay for their most informative comments on
> registering <BR>
> <DD>&gt;cultivars.<BR>
> <DD>&gt;I wrote to the L on behalf of Brian Williams, so hopefully he is
> <BR>
> <DD>&gt;better informed on what registering a cultivar
> involves.&nbsp;&nbsp; I guesss <BR>
> <DD>&gt;the NEXT big hurdle is---where does he register an aroid cultivar,
> <BR>
> <DD>&gt;with whom, and HOW does he go about doing so!!&nbsp; :--)<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;Good Growing!<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;Julius<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;Pared down to the basics, the only salient part of a cultivar that
> <BR>
> <DD>&gt;comes under the ICBN is the genus. The cultivar name at the
> minimum <BR>
> <DD>&gt;consists of the genus name and the cv epithet.<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;It does not matter all that much whether the plant is a selected
> <BR>
> <DD>&gt;man-made hybrid or a selection from&nbsp; a wild species or a
> selection <BR>
> <DD>&gt;from a natural hybrid population. The thing that is to be named is
> a <BR>
> <DD>&gt;clone, selected for some merit, within a genus.<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;Thus: the gargantuan white-spathed Amorphophallus 'Wilbert's <BR>
> <DD>&gt;Surprise' can be&nbsp; defined, named, established and registered
> <BR>
> <DD>&gt;provided it is distinct from other cultivars of Amorphophallus,
> <BR>
> <DD>&gt;uniform and stable&nbsp; regardless of what species or hybrid it
> is. Of <BR>
> <DD>&gt;course it would be nice to have the information that it is an f2
> <BR>
> <DD>&gt;hybrid of A. titanum and A. prainii, but that it not a necessary
> <BR>
> <DD>&gt;piece of information to name the cv. [I have made this example up,
> <BR>
> <DD>&gt;just in case anyone was wondering!].<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;The sort of problem that George raises would, I think, arise in
> <BR>
> <DD>&gt;specific circumstances where there was an intention to transfer a
> <BR>
> <DD>&gt;latin botanical epithet into a cultivar name. This can only be
> done <BR>
> <DD>&gt;where the entire taxon is a clone. A possible example is Aliocasia
> <BR>
> <DD>&gt;zebrina var tigrina: If it can be demonstrated that var. tigrina
> is <BR>
> <DD>&gt;a clone then that botanical varietal epithet can become the
> cultivar <BR>
> <DD>&gt;epithet as in Alocasia 'Tigrina'. If it is not clear whether var.
> <BR>
> <DD>&gt;tigrina is a clone then there are simpler solutions than DNA and
> <BR>
> <DD>&gt;field analysis. Either don't transfer the latin epithet at all, or
> <BR>
> <DD>&gt;translate it into a contemporary language e.g. Alocasia 'Tigrine'
> <BR>
> <DD>&gt;applied to the cultivated clone known now as "tigrina". That way
> the <BR>
> <DD>&gt;exact status of the botanical variety does not need to be found
> out <BR>
> <DD>&gt;at all, while a familiar name (slightly adjusted) can be retained
> as <BR>
> <DD>&gt;a cultivar epithet.<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;What I am getting at is that the issues which George raises, while
> <BR>
> <DD>&gt;valid, should not necessarily create the impression of vast
> hurdles <BR>
> <DD>&gt;to getting things going with Aroid cv classifictaion.<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;Alistair<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; From:&nbsp; "W. George Schmid"
> &lt;hostahill@bellsouth.net&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Reply-To:&nbsp; Discussion of aroids
> &lt;aroid-l@gizmoworks.com&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To:&nbsp; "'Discussion of aroids'"
> &lt;aroid-l@gizmoworks.com&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject:&nbsp; RE: [Aroid-l] Names for
> different forms?<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Date:&nbsp; Wed, 14 Mar 2007 11:11:33 -0400<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Julius,<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Some time ago we had an exchange on
> registering aroid cultivars <BR>
> <DD>&gt;in<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;accordance with the ICNCP (INTERNATIONAL
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;PLANTS 2004 edition). I made some
> suggestions and Derek worked <BR>
> <DD>&gt;on this also.<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Perhaps we can refresh our previous
> conversations and efforts. <BR>
> <DD>&gt;The problem I<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;see in Araceae is to determine which aroids
> are valid taxa to <BR>
> <DD>&gt;be handled<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;under the ICBN and which are in fact
> cultivated varieties <BR>
> <DD>&gt;(man-made hybrids)<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;to be registered under the ICNCP. One of
> the problems we had <BR>
> <DD>&gt;under Hosta<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;were the numerous interspecific, natural
> hybrids existing in <BR>
> <DD>&gt;the wild. We<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;solved that problem by field investigations
> and accepted such <BR>
> <DD>&gt;hybrids as<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;taxa if perpetuating populations were found
> to exist in the <BR>
> <DD>&gt;wild. In some<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;cases, the holotypes were based on
> cultivated plants <BR>
> <DD>&gt;purportedly collected<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;in the wild, but lacking field verification
> were reduced to <BR>
> <DD>&gt;cultivars under<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;the ICNCP and so registered. From some of
> the earlier messages <BR>
> <DD>&gt;I deduce that<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;interspecific hybridization may also be a
> problem with aroids. <BR>
> <DD>&gt;To determine<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;synonymy, RAPD/DNA was employed to make the
> differentiations. <BR>
> <DD>&gt;That is an<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;expensive process, though. It seems to me
> that a number of <BR>
> <DD>&gt;aroids in<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;cultivation are not taxa (valid species)
> but culta (cultivars). <BR>
> <DD>&gt;George<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;W. George Schmid<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Hosta Hill R. G.<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;USDA Zone 7a - 1188 feet (361m) AMSL<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;84-12'-30" W 33-51' N<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;All mail virus-scanned by McAfee<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;-----Original Message-----<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;From: aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com <BR>
> <DD>&gt;[<A href="mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com";>
> mailto:aroid-l-bounces@gizmoworks.com</A>]<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;On Behalf Of Julius Boos<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Sent: Tuesday, 13 March, 2007 17:28<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;To: aroid-l@gizmoworks.com<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Subject: RE: [Aroid-l] Names for different
> forms?<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;From : Brian Williams
> &lt;pugturd@alltel.net&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Reply-To : Discussion of aroids
> &lt;aroid-l@gizmoworks.com&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Sent : Tuesday, March 13, 2007 3:20 AM<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;To : Discussion of aroids
> &lt;aroid-l@gizmoworks.com&gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Subject : [Aroid-l] Names for different
> forms?<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Dear Brian,<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;This all goes back to an issue that to date
> has not been <BR>
> <DD>&gt;'solved' by the<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;aroid group, and which is a VERY difficult
> issue, namely the <BR>
> <DD>&gt;cultivar names<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;and the correct registering of these names
> according to <BR>
> <DD>&gt;whatever<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;horticultural rules/laws that may
> apply.<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;The IAS has nominated several people over
> the past several <BR>
> <DD>&gt;years ( I can<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;recall at least three)&nbsp; to do
> something about setting up some <BR>
> <DD>&gt;sort of<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;registry to legitimize some or all of these
> names which are <BR>
> <DD>&gt;being bantered<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;about, but to date I think the progress on
> instituting this <BR>
> <DD>&gt;system is not in<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;place or even being worked on.<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;I have mentioned on several occasions that
> when man collectes a <BR>
> <DD>&gt;certain<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;plant from nature, he usually selects one
> which to him is the <BR>
> <DD>&gt;most<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;attractive out of several hundred, maybe
> thousands of other <BR>
> <DD>&gt;'less<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;attractive' specimens he may see in the
> field.&nbsp;&nbsp; All of these <BR>
> <DD>&gt;plants, both<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;the 'attractive' ones AND the less
> attractive ones are still <BR>
> <DD>&gt;all variations<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;of ONE species.<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;All I can suggest at this time is that you
> make a label that <BR>
> <DD>&gt;explains what<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;the particular clone or var. of that plant
> is, for example <BR>
> <DD>&gt;Philodendron<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;stenolobum var. narrow/wavy/long leaf,
> and/or P. stenolobum <BR>
> <DD>&gt;var. short and<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;broad leaf, or 'Anthurium warocqueanum var.
> Murline Lydon <BR>
> <DD>&gt;minature', vs.<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;'Anthu. warocqueanum var. large leaf
> '.&nbsp;&nbsp; Collection data and <BR>
> <DD>&gt;collectors<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;name would be another good bit of
> information to keep with all <BR>
> <DD>&gt;wild<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;collected plants.<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Perhaps Derek Burch can give some sort of
> suggestion or <BR>
> <DD>&gt;soloution that may<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;serve you guys better??<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;The&nbsp; Best,<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Julius<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;I have recently been trying to up
> grade my data base of <BR>
> <DD>&gt;names as well<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;as redo all my tags and make sure
> everything has as much <BR>
> <DD>&gt;data and<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;information as possible. I have a
> few questions on forms. I <BR>
> <DD>&gt;know many<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;plants have several forms of the
> same species. I would like <BR>
> <DD>&gt;to know if<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;their are names for these forms or
> even if the science <BR>
> <DD>&gt;community really<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;makes note of it?<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;If not would putting a added
> portion to the name to help ID <BR>
> <DD>&gt;different<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;forms be possible? If so who
> should come up with these name? <BR>
> <DD>&gt;Here are<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;a few for instance off hand that I
> really think should have <BR>
> <DD>&gt;some more<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;information.&nbsp; Their seems to
> be two very different forms of <BR>
> <DD>&gt;Veitchii<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;one with wider leaves and much
> larger ripples. Then another <BR>
> <DD>&gt;form with<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;thinner leaves and a much more
> rippled effect. I know that <BR>
> <DD>&gt;naming all<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;slight different forms would not
> be worth while but for some <BR>
> <DD>&gt;very<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;noticeable differences it could
> help people know exactly <BR>
> <DD>&gt;what they are<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;getting and their seems to be a
> major price difference in <BR>
> <DD>&gt;one form<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;compared to the other. Another one
> that comes to mind is the <BR>
> <DD>&gt;two forms<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;of Anthurium warocqueanum one that
> can get 3 to 4 feet long <BR>
> <DD>&gt;and the<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;smaller slender form with hardly
> any back lobes. They are <BR>
> <DD>&gt;very<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;noticeably different yet go by the
> exact same name. If one <BR>
> <DD>&gt;was to<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;order the plant under these name
> they could end up with <BR>
> <DD>&gt;either form<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt; &gt;&gt;though one form of each is usually
> much more sought after.&lt;&lt;<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
> &gt;_______________________________________________<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Aroid-l mailing list<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;Aroid-l@gizmoworks.com<BR>
> <DD>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;<A
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