hort.net Seasonal photo, (c) 2006 Christopher P. Lindsey, All Rights Reserved: do not copy
articles | gallery of plants | blog | tech blog | plant profiles | patents | mailing lists | top stories | links | shorturl service | tom clothier's archive0
 Navigation
Articles
Gallery of Plants
Blog
Tech Blog
Plant Profiles
Patents
Mailing Lists
    FAQ
    Netiquette
    Search ALL lists
    Search help
    Subscription info
Top Stories
Links
sHORTurl service
Tom Clothier's Archive
 Top Stories
Disease could hit Britain's trees hard

Ten of the best snowdrop cultivars

Plant protein database helps identify plant gene functions

Dendroclimatologists record history through trees

Potato beetle could be thwarted through gene manipulation

Hawaii expands coffee farm quarantine

Study explains flower petal loss

Unauthorized use of a plant doesn't invalidate it's patent

RSS story archive

Further thoughts on please and thank you

  • Subject: [cg] Further thoughts on please and thank you
  • From: Paul Revier paul_revier@yahoo.com
  • Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 03:50:24 -0800 (PST)

Dear Friends - 
 
I have been a "fan" of this wonderful list serve for many years, and throughout have been (mostly) delighted and certainly inspired by Mr. Honigman's sage participation. For me he has come to represent the heart of what I find best about community gardening, with his willingness to provide useful information and referrals on a very wide range of topics, his humor, and his very generous heart. His is the only name I readily recognize, and I imagine his frequent contributions undoubtedly prove instructive or helpful to the many persons seeking help from the far-flung community gardening community. 
 
That having been said I admit to having been dismayed by Mr. Honigman's response to Ms. Bhattarya's request for help; it seemed vastly out of character for him, and certainly came across as unneighborly. Mr. Honigman's explanation seemed to represent his values, culture and perhaps even his generation, as Ms. Bhattarya noted, but her suggestion of banning Mr. Honigman strikes me as a wildly inappropriate and insensitive notion, and just adds fuel to the fire. Mr Honigman did not offer an apology, and I think it reasonable for people not to apologize unless they mean it. My sense of Mr. Honigman is that he is not about to apologize out of  political correctness, and his streak of individualism-meets-communitarianism is probably why I enjoy reading his contributions as much as I do. 
 
Please, now that the dust has (hopefully) cleared a bit, perhaps we can all go about the business of getting along together. There is contradiction aplenty in life, and we have far too many issues facing us that will require all of our talents, skills and passions. 
 
Forgiveness for all concerned would be my very strong recommendation. Inch by inch...
 
Thank you,
 
Paul Revier
Portland, ME
 
community_garden-admin@mallorn.com wrote:
Send community_garden mailing list submissions to
community_garden@mallorn.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit
https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
community_garden-request@mallorn.com
You can reach the person managing the list at
community_garden-admin@mallorn.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of community_garden digest..."

Today's Topics:

1. Re: Attn:Puzzled Adam and Moderator (Pauline Tessier)
From: Pauline Tessier <p_tessier@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [cg] Attn:Puzzled Adam and Moderator
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 22:19:43 -0700
To: community_garden@mallorn.com

Dear Shefali,

Good for you. I was shocked at this persons reaction and felt badly 
for you, having to read those words.

Pauline



On Mar 21, 2005, at 10:01 PM, community_garden-admin@mallorn.com wrote:

> Send community_garden mailing list submissions to
> community_garden@mallorn.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit
> https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> community_garden-request@mallorn.com
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> community_garden-admin@mallorn.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific 
> than
> "Re: Contents of community_garden digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE: pleases and thank you's (Tom Dietrich)
> 2. Position announcement (Jerome Rigot)
> 3. Re: RE: pleases and thank you's (adam36055@aol.com)
> 4. Re: Re: community_garden digest, Vol 1 #2079 - 1 msg (michele 
> tranes)
> 5. Growing Communities Workshop in Fresno (Betsy Johnson)
> 6. Attn:Puzzled Adam and Moderator (BHATTARYA,SHEFALI)
>
> From: "Tom Dietrich" 
> Date: March 21, 2005 11:07:41 AM MST
> To: 
> Subject: [cg] RE: pleases and thank you's
>
>
> Adam:
>
> My brow furrowed a little as I read how strongly you've reacted to Ms.
> Shefali's posting. I agree a "please" would be nice, advisable even,
> but the overall tone of the message wasn't as "entitled" or
> disrespectful as your reaction seems to portray. She did use the 
> phrases
> "would appreciate your input" and "would like to seek your 
> suggestions."
> I am not involved with post-graduate work, so maybe I am off-base here.
>
>
> Other reactions, please?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Tom
>
> Tom Dietrich
> Grow With Your Neighbors
> Dayton, OH
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:29:27 -0500
> From: adam36055@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [cg] Re: community_garden digest, Vol 1 #2079 - 1 msg
> To: shefali@ufl.edu, community_garden@mallorn.com
>
> This has to be cultural - or generational, or whatever. Maybe I didn't
> get the memo that excluded the word, "please," from requests or 
> queries,
> but I can't be alone in disbelief that a Doctoral candidate for a
> reputable university can write a query, for other people to give her
> input, and footnotes for her dissertation WITHOUT USING THE WORD
> "PLEASE."
>
> Has a memo gone out that has removed this word from our language? I 
> know
> that I hear it an awful lot often than the work F#@K therse days.
>
> Please advise - I believe that I may have missed this change cultural
> phenomena, interaction along the Internet, and mass media. along with
> "American idol.
>
> Puzzled,
> Adam Honigman
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BHATTARYA,SHEFALI 
> To: community_garden@mallorn.com
> Sent: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:00:07 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: [cg] Re: community_garden digest, Vol 1 #2079 - 1 msg
>
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I am Shefali Bhattarya, a doctoral student at University of Florida. I
> had introduced myself to listserver once earlier sometime back.
> Currently I am working on my dissertation which focuses on developing a
> strategy for integrating Urban Agriculture (community gardens) in the
> city masterplan. I am right now interviewing the local gardeners to 
> find
> out the benefits of gardening to them. From speaking to many gardeners
> now, I have come to know that they all feel that benefits from 
> community
> gardening are vast and diverse.
>
> Another component of my research deals with proposing some more (new)
> suitable sites in Gainesville for community gardens. But before this I
> have to identify some preconditions to community gardening for the City
> of Gainesville and therefore have to define a criteria for proposing 
> new
> garden sites. I am using GIS for this. I would like to seek your
> suggestions for this component of my research.
>
> I am looking for various criteria (both formal research based and non
> research based are OK with me) for proposing new garden sites in a city
> (e.g. nearness to a neighborhood or nearness to bus route etc). I would
> appreciate if you all can provide some input in this. I am eager to see
> what the criteria are and if they differ from city to city depending
> upon city characteristics e.g. city size etc. or they are more or less
> the same.
>
> Hope to hear from you.
>
> Thanks much.
>
> Shefali
>
> On Tue Mar 15 13:00:16 EST 2005, community_garden-admin@mallorn.com
> wrote:
>
>> Send community_garden mailing list submissions to
>> community_garden@mallorn.com
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit
>> https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> community_garden-request@mallorn.com
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> community_garden-admin@mallorn.com
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more >
>>> specific than
>> "Re: Contents of community_garden digest..."
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>> 1. Boston Globe: Community Gardeners offer Tips on Contaminants >
>>> (adam36055@aol.com)
>>> ______________________________________________________
>> The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only > one
>> of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more > about the
>> ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to >
>> http://www.communitygarden.org
>>> To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@mallorn.com To
>>> subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: >
>>> https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
>>>
>
> -- 
>
> BHATTARYA,SHEFALI
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of
> ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA 
> and
> to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
>
> To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@mallorn.com
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription:
> https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
>
>
>
>
>
> -- __--__-- 
>
> ______________________________________________________
> The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of
> ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA 
> and
> to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
>
> To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@mallorn.com
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription:
> https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
>
>
> End of community_garden Digest
>
>
>
>
> From: Jerome Rigot 
> Date: March 21, 2005 12:29:05 PM MST
> To: community_garden@mallorn.com
> Subject: [cg] Position announcement
>
>
> Cuyahoga Valley Countryside Conservancy
>
> Administrative Assistant
>
> Cuyahoga Valley Countryside Conservancy (CVCC) is a non-profit 
> organization based in the Cuyahoga Valley, between Cleveland and 
> Akron. CVCC is a small think tank, program developer, and educational 
> organization. CVCC is a cooperating partner of Cuyahoga Valley 
> National Park, advising and assisting with the rehabilitation and 
> revitalization of 25-30 farms within park boundaries. CVCC also works 
> with several local, regional, and national organizations attempting to 
> rebuild local-regional farming and food businesses in Northeast Ohio. 
> The Administrative Assistant will work closely with CVCC's Executive 
> Director and other staff on most of these programs and projects.
>
> Responsibilities:
>
> The Administrative Assistant is responsible for managing general 
> office operations: Responding to public inquiries; maintaining 
> financial records; assisting with preparation of grant proposals and 
> reports; publications and website; and assisting with specific 
> projects (such as farmers' markets). The Administrative Assistant 
> will routinely interact with the general public, potential farmers, 
> farm lease holders, market vendors, etc.
>
> Qualifications:
>
> Some college preferred. Very strong computer skills required: Word 
> processing, financial record creation and maintenance, graphics, web 
> research, website maintenance. Attentiveness to detail and aesthetics 
> are important. Should have strong communication skills, 
> writing/editing abilities, and good marketing/PR sensibilities.
>
> Additional Information:
>
> The position is full time and permanent; salary is competitive, and 
> includes an excellent benefits package. A letter of interest and 
> resume should be received by 4/15/05.
>
> Contact Name:
> Darwin Kelsey
>
> Contact Address
> Cuyahoga Valley Countryside Conservancy
> 2179 Everett Road
> Peninsula, OH 44264
>
>
>
>
> From: adam36055@aol.com
> Date: March 21, 2005 1:11:20 PM MST
> To: tdietrich@metroparks.org, community_garden@mallorn.com
> Subject: Re: [cg] RE: pleases and thank you's
>
>
> Friends,
>
> That message hit me when I was pissed off and grouchy. And I'm not in 
> a better mood now. But I certainly will try to be civil. And to put my 
> response in language, to quote T.S. Elliot, "That Cats and Dogs Can 
> Understand."
>
> As a long time working class American, volunteer and do-gooder... as 
> someone who shows up to actually get his hands dirty and do something 
> at the drop of a hat, I tend to get ticked at breathless folks, at the 
> end of their academic tether, as due dates become closer, who make 
> informational requests for lots of quotable/footnotable material, 
> without saying, "please."
>
> We say "please," in our community garden, because it shows mutual 
> respect - we KNOW the person doesn't have to do ANYTHING, but we 
> request it as a favor from them, as someone who surely doesn't have to 
> get off their rear end to do anything.
>
> We say "please," in our soup kitchens, both to the folks who do the 
> cooking, as well as those we feed, because it re-inforces our common 
> humanity.
>
> We certainly said, "please," at Ground Zero or Fresh Kills Dump after 
> 9/11, when we were asking someone to hold open a specimen bag, or pass 
> a tool to extricate a body part, or lift a girder off of a blackened 
> torso.
>
> It always seems to be twenty-somethings - maybe they didn't do a 
> segment on it during "Sesame Street," when they were coming up, or 
> junior members or interns at professional do-gooder organizations.
>
> Damned if I can figure it out. Maybe they didn't include it in the 
> "ways to show basic common decency, civility and respect people who do 
> stuff for free, without which our not-for-profit agency would 
> founder," course at a "not-for-profit.org."
>
> As someone who worked restaurants for years, you'd get a long order 
> from someone who didn't look at you, and they never said please. But 
> you can be damned sure that in the kitchen, or at the bar the 
> "pleases" and "por favors" were de rigeur.
>
> The idea is when you ask a free person to do something you respect 
> their freedom by saying, :if you please, if you would, please." And 
> community gardeners say the words please and thank you an awful lot - 
> it's essential to our culture - or at least the NYC community garden 
> culture I've been part of for over 30 years.
>
> My final words on this: When I did an oral history project with my one 
> surviving Nazi Death Camp parent and other tattooed armed friends, I 
> asked,"How did you know, when your were in a Displaced Person camp 
> after the war, with guards, barbed wire, the works, that you were 
> safe, and there was hope?"
>
> The answer was, "I cried when the soldiers asked us to PLEASE feel 
> free to go by the mess tent for breakfast - the word in German was 
> "bitte," one that we had not heard for over four years. We were 
> acknowledged to be human beings by the simple use of that word - 
> PLEASE"
>
> Best wishes,
> Adam Honigman
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Dietrich 
> To: community_garden@mallorn.com
> Sent: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 13:07:41 -0500
> Subject: [cg] RE: pleases and thank you's
>
>
> Adam:
>
> My brow furrowed a little as I read how strongly you've reacted to Ms.
> Shefali's posting. I agree a "please" would be nice, advisable even,
> but the overall tone of the message wasn't as "entitled" or
> disrespectful as your reaction seems to portray. She did use the 
> phrases
> "would appreciate your input" and "would like to seek your 
> suggestions."
> I am not involved with post-graduate work, so maybe I am off-base here.
>
>
> Other reactions, please?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Tom
>
> Tom Dietrich
> Grow With Your Neighbors
> Dayton, OH
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:29:27 -0500
> From: adam36055@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [cg] Re: community_garden digest, Vol 1 #2079 - 1 msg
> To: shefali@ufl.edu, community_garden@mallorn.com
>
> This has to be cultural - or generational, or whatever. Maybe I didn't
> get the memo that excluded the word, "please," from requests or 
> queries,
> but I can't be alone in disbelief that a Doctoral candidate for a
> reputable university can write a query, for other people to give her
> input, and footnotes for her dissertation WITHOUT USING THE WORD
> "PLEASE."
>
> Has a memo gone out that has removed this word from our language? I 
> know
> that I hear it an awful lot often than the work F#@K therse days.
>
> Please advise - I believe that I may have missed this change cultural
> phenomena, interaction along the Internet, and mass media. along with
> "American idol.
>
> Puzzled,
> Adam Honigman
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BHATTARYA,SHEFALI 
> To: community_garden@mallorn.com
> Sent: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:00:07 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: [cg] Re: community_garden digest, Vol 1 #2079 - 1 msg
>
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I am Shefali Bhattarya, a doctoral student at University of Florida. I
> had introduced myself to listserver once earlier sometime back.
> Currently I am working on my dissertation which focuses on developing a
> strategy for integrating Urban Agriculture (community gardens) in the
> city masterplan. I am right now interviewing the local gardeners to 
> find
> out the benefits of gardening to them. From speaking to many gardeners
> now, I have come to know that they all feel that benefits from 
> community
> gardening are vast and diverse.
>
> Another component of my research deals with proposing some more (new)
> suitable sites in Gainesville for community gardens. But before this I
> have to identify some preconditions to community gardening for the City
> of Gainesville and therefore have to define a criteria for proposing 
> new
> garden sites. I am using GIS for this. I would like to seek your
> suggestions for this component of my research.
>
> I am looking for various criteria (both formal research based and non
> research based are OK with me) for proposing new garden sites in a city
> (e.g. nearness to a neighborhood or nearness to bus route etc). I would
> appreciate if you all can provide some input in this. I am eager to see
> what the criteria are and if they differ from city to city depending
> upon city characteristics e.g. city size etc. or they are more or less
> the same.
>
> Hope to hear from you.
>
> Thanks much.
>
> Shefali
>
> On Tue Mar 15 13:00:16 EST 2005, community_garden-admin@mallorn.com
> wrote:
>
>> Send community_garden mailing list submissions to
>> community_garden@mallorn.com
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit
>> https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> community_garden-request@mallorn.com
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> community_garden-admin@mallorn.com
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more >
>>> specific than
>> "Re: Contents of community_garden digest..."
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>> 1. Boston Globe: Community Gardeners offer Tips on Contaminants >
>>> (adam36055@aol.com)
>>> ______________________________________________________
>> The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only > one
>> of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more > about the
>> ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to >
>> http://www.communitygarden.org
>>> To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@mallorn.com To
>>> subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: >
>>> https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
>>>
>
> -- 
>
> BHATTARYA,SHEFALI
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of
> ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA 
> and
> to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
>
> To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@mallorn.com
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription:
> https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
>
>
>
>
>
> -- __--__-- 
>
> ______________________________________________________
> The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of
> ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA 
> and
> to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
>
> To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@mallorn.com
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription:
> https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
>
>
> End of community_garden Digest
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of 
> ACGA's
> services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to 
> find out
> how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
>
>
> To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@mallorn.com
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: 
> https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
>
>
>
>
> From: michele tranes 
> Date: March 21, 2005 8:17:43 AM MST
> To: "adam36055@aol.com" 
> Cc: shefali@ufl.edu, community_garden@mallorn.com
> Subject: Re: [cg] Re: community_garden digest, Vol 1 #2079 - 1 msg
> Reply-To: michele tranes 
>
>
> Hi,
> I'm new to the list, so I'm not familiar with how things usually go,
> but this is a rather strong, negative first impression. I thought the
> request for info was polite and straight-forward and did not deserve
> the scathing response. Perhaps it had a cooler academic tone than
> normal speech, but it was not impolite or demanding.
> In response to the query, when setting up a community garden in a
> city, I think people would use the same considerations as setting up a
> garden anywhere else- access to light, water, the quality of the soil,
> etc. How tall are the buildings surrounding the site? Will the
> garden get adequate sun exposure? The previous use of the site should
> be considered. Will extensive clean-up be needed before a garden can
> be planted? Is there any contamination on the site? What are the
> costs of remediation? What is the population that will benefit from
> the garden? What is the population that will be working at the
> garden? How close is the site to these two groups? These questions
> may not be directly related to the distance from a neighborhood if the
> garden will be associated with a businesses' customers or employees.
> I think it's awesome that you're using GIS for this- it's a very
> powerful tool, so it should work really well.
> I hope this has been helpful, and I hope that responses that I see on
> the list on the future are a little more polite.
> Michele Tranes
>
>
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:29:27 -0500, adam36055@aol.com 
> wrote:
>> This has to be cultural - or generational, or whatever. Maybe I 
>> didn't get the memo that excluded the word, "please," from requests 
>> or queries, but I can't be alone in disbelief that a Doctoral 
>> candidate for a reputable university can write a query, for other 
>> people to give her input, and footnotes for her dissertation WITHOUT 
>> USING THE WORD "PLEASE."
>>
>> Has a memo gone out that has removed this word from our language? I 

=== message truncated ===______________________________________________________
The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org

To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@mallorn.com

To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden


______________________________________________________
The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org


To post an e-mail to the list:  community_garden@mallorn.com

To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription:  https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden





 © 1995-2015 Mallorn Computing, Inc.All Rights Reserved.
Our Privacy Statement
Other Mailing lists | Author Index | Date Index | Subject Index | Thread Index