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RE: hybrids


I agree with Eva on this.  Although until I can get work for a fair wage, we
won't be able to buy a new hybrid or anything else.  However, DH's and my
first choice would be another Prius for the various reasons' Eva said, even
if they are $6K more.  It's that whole thing of putting our money where our
mouth is for the environment, to reduce our carbon footprint, to reduce oil
dependence, because it is a great car and it really is cool!  We LOVE our
"quiet car."  We probably won't be able to afford all the bells and
whistles, but that is O.K., too.

Blessings,
Bonnie (SW OH - zone 5) 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [mailto:owner-gardenchat@hort.net] On Behalf
Of Eva Tompkins LaBonte
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 6:25 PM
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Subject: Re: [CHAT] hybrids

Kitty,

I re-read the "subsidies" part of the editorial.  I don't know if car
manufacturers are getting subsidies from the government for making them --
it's possible that they are.  The reason why a mnfr initially loses money on
a new technology vehicle is when research & development (R&D) costs are
factored into production and sales.  The hybrid cars cost a little more
because of the huge battery, but Toyota has been selling the Prius since
2000 or 2001.  I think Toyota is making money on the car now.  They've sold
alot (here & abroad), and they are increasing the number of cars produced
every year.  They aren't "behind the curve", so to speak, like GM.

Eva


On 7/30/06, Eva Tompkins LaBonte <evatesq@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Kitty,
>
> Well, as it is, this car isn't cheap.  The base model Prius (no 
> options) sells for about $22K MSRP.  The options package that I want 
> (Nav & backup camera, but NOT leather seats - I have dogs), adds 
> nearly $6k to that price, so I am already going to be paying alot for the
car.
>
> The author of the editorial is saying that the price is "subsidized," 
> I presume, because there are various federal/state tax credits and/or 
> deductions available for consumers who purchase these vehicles.  Put 
> it this way - if I wasn't getting a tax credit, I'd still be buying 
> the car because I love it so much.  It is truly a cool, futuristic car.
>
> My reasons for getting a Prius really are (1) concern for the 
> environment
> - it is a clean car; (2) concern about our dependence on foreign oil, 
> and minimizing this country's high consumption of petroleum products; 
> (3) supporting hybrid/alternative fuels technology; (4) it is a 
> proven, dependable car; and (5) it's just so freaking cool.
>
> Eva
>
> On 7/30/06, Kitty <kmrsy@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > Eva,
> > if it cost $6000 more, would you still go for it?
> > I'm sure the wait has more to do with the mfgr holding back on 
> > production rather than demand being so high, ohterwise they'd 
> > increase production to sell more cars.  I think they'd hold back, if 
> > indeed they are being subsidized.  They're doing just enough to 
> > prove they are actually trying, but not enough to prove they don't 
> > need to be subsidized.
> > I think I'd be interested in one down the road after I get my 
> > 300,000 miles out of my Suzuki, if they come down to a price I could 
> > afford.
> >
> > Kitty
> > neIN, Zone 5
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Eva Tompkins LaBonte" <evatesq@gmail.com>
> > To: <gardenchat@hort.net >
> > Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 3:02 PM
> > Subject: Re: [CHAT] hybrids
> >
> >
> > > What Bonnie said is 100% right on.  The Prius totally rocks.  It 
> > > is
> > THE
> > > best
> > > car on the market, IMHO.  Like Bonnie, I also bought it to "walk 
> > > the walk".
> > >
> > > I have no problems with power -- the car is pretty "zippy" and I 
> > > have
> > no
> > > problem taking hills or speeding up real fast to get on the highway.
> > (The
> > > parkways in Long Island have ridiculously short entrance ramps, so 
> > > you
> >
> > > have
> > > to be able to haul _ss to get on the parkway without getting 
> > > killed.)
> > >
> > > I am getting approximately 45-50 mpg right now and I am not stingy
> > with
> > > the
> > > AC.  In the winter, the mileage is less, approximately 36-44 mpg.
> > >
> > > I am at the end of my lease of a 2003.  I have not had one single 
> > > mechanical problem with the car.  I have also kept up with the 
> > > regular
> > maintenance
> > > schedule, which is service every 7500 miles, not every 3000 miles.
> > >
> > > I am getting a new Prius for sure.  The new Prius (2004 and later
> > > versions)
> > > get even better mileage -- they say 55-60 mpg, and they are really
> > cool
> > > and
> > > gadety, with Bluetooth technology for wireless cell phone use, and 
> > > a
> > push
> > > button start, etc.  If you get the navigation system (which I 
> > > will),
> > you
> > > get
> > > a back up camera that comes on when you put the car in reverse so 
> > > you
> > can
> > > see what's behind you while you're backing up.
> > >
> > > I don't know why they say the cars wouldn't sell.  The demand, 
> > > here,
> > is
> > > such
> > > that you nearly always have to wait to get a Prius.  Very few, if 
> > > any,
> > are
> > > ever available to buy and drive off the lot.  I ordered the new 
> > > Prius
> > and
> > > expect to have to wait two months before it comes in.  I see alot 
> > > of Priuses on the road too.
> > >
> > > My two cents.  I laugh at the fools filling up their Hummers at 
> > > the
> > gas
> > > station.
> > >
> > > Eva
> > >
> > > On 7/30/06, Bonnie & Bill Morgan <wmorgan972@ameritech.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> We need to hear from Eva on this too.
> > >>
> > >> I have had my Prius since 2000.  We too bought it to walk the
> > walk.  (We
> > >> were also among the first to try a rotary engine as well when 
> > >> they
> > came
> > >> out
> > >> as a cleaner burning engine.)  Even though the engine is smaller 
> > >> and
> > the
> > >> electric motor is not terribly large, when you couple the two up 
> > >> for
> > a
> > >> burst
> > >> of speed or sustained speed, you don't get any lag.  You just GO 
> > >> as
> > fast
> > >> and
> > >> as quick as any other car on the road.  They do NOT lack
> > power.  Anyone
> > >> who
> > >> has ever given one a proper test can tell you they will get up 
> > >> and go
> > if
> > >> you
> > >> kick the gas pedal.  Just like every other gas powered vehicle, 
> > >> your mileage will go down.  I get 40-50mpg right now in mixed 
> > >> driving.  Now that
> > isn't
> > >> as
> > >> good as what was initially advertised when we bought the car, but 
> > >> it
> > is
> > >> still a good deal better than anyone else we know is getting for
> > their
> > >> $3.00
> > >> per gallon.  If I go highway all the way and fairly level road 
> > >> conditions, I get better mileage.  If I do in-town driving, low 
> > >> speeds, I also get higher mpg.  Although it pulls hills (as when 
> > >> we went through the mountains) without any trouble, it costs 
> > >> mileage to do so (though not as much as
> > a
> > >> conventionally powered car.)  It all depends on where the testing 
> > >> is
> > done
> > >> as
> > >> to whether you get the same mileage.  We've had a number of 
> > >> conventionally powered cars that didn't get the mileage they were 
> > >> purported to get.
> > >> Part
> > >> of that is due to topography, part to climate and part to driving 
> > >> style.  It is no different with a hybrid.
> > >>
> > >> As for the market for them, nobody driving the luxury vehicles 
> > >> can
> > really
> > >> complain about the pricing.  It is more difficult for lower 
> > >> income
> > folks
> > >> to
> > >> get into one for certain, but the market IS there or there 
> > >> wouldn't
> > be so
> > >> many hybrids on back order.  My Prius is guaranteed 100,000 miles 
> > >> on
> > the
> > >> power train and many competitive gas powered vehicles don't do
> > that.  And
> > >> I
> > >> know a lot of conventionally powered vehicles that haven't made 
> > >> it to 100,000 miles, period.  The story is still out on how long 
> > >> you can
> > keep
> > >> one
> > >> running.  We are just nearing 80, 000.00 but we are not seeing 
> > >> any problems other than the occasional burned out light bulb.
> > >>
> > >> If there were any way DH and I could afford another hybrid today, 
> > >> we would purchase it in a heart beat!  It is quiet.  It is 
> > >> CLEAN/GREEN with emissions so low, the locals don't even test for 
> > >> them anymore on a Prius.  (Our first time through, they took 
> > >> forever trying to get something to register
> > on
> > >> their
> > >> meters and they kept trying to re-start it when the gasoline 
> > >> engine
> > shut
> > >> down and it was just running on the electric motor.) I imagine 
> > >> we'll
> > be
> > >> looking for something to replace DH's car when I can find work again.
> >
> > >>
> > >> There are Prius and other hybrid web-sites.  You might want to go
> > read
> > >> some
> > >> of the comments from other consumers.  I think you would be
> > pleasantly
> > >> surprised.   Besides, the hybrid industry is relatively new.  I look
> > for
> > >> magnitudes of improvements to make them even more efficient in 
> > >> the future.
> > >> Just in the few years we've had our hybrid, great strides have 
> > >> been
> > made
> > >> in
> > >> mileage and other features.
> > >>
> > >> I'd like to know what kinds of vehicles the authors of the 
> > >> research
> > and
> > >> the
> > >> author of the editorial drive.  For many people, it seems, a car 
> > >> is something very personal and tied to their status/personalities.
> > >>
> > >> Blessings,
> > >> Bonnie (SW OH - zone 5)
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [mailto: 
> > >> owner-gardenchat@hort.net]
> > On
> > >> Behalf
> > >> Of Kitty
> > >> Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 10:00 AM
> > >> To: gardenchat@hort.net
> > >> Subject: [CHAT] hybrids
> > >>
> > >> Interesting editorial in today's paper.  The author cited 
> > >> research
> > done
> > >> by
> > >> Reason magazine, National Geographic, CNW Marketing, Weekly 
> > >> Standard magazine.  NG I've heard of but I know little about the 
> > >> other 3, so I wonder if you hybrid drivers might refute or agree 
> > >> with the various parts of
> > it.
> > >>
> > >> "...the market doesn't support them.  They may be PC, but hybrids
> > would
> > >> get
> > >> nowhere w/o govt and mfg subsidies.  Car companies take losses on 
> > >> the cars.
> > >> Hybrids cost about $6000 more to make than similar gas-powered 
> > >> cars
> > and
> > >> consumers won't shell that out - whatever their politics - and so
> > buyers
> > >> require the subsidies"...  "..hybrids lack power..."  "They don't 
> > >> get near the great gas mileage we're told they do"... "after a 
> > >> 2yr study on
> > 'dust
> > >> to
> > >> dust' energy costs of the cars - meaning the energy to plan, 
> > >> build,
> > sell,
> > >> drive, and dispose of - the hybrids don't stack up well against 
> > >> gas-powered counterparts...don't last as long - around 100,000 
> > >> miles vs 300,000
> > for
> > >> traditional powered vehicles"
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Kitty
> > >> neIN, Zone 5
> >
>


--
Eva

"Can you name the one country on earth where the government can steal
elections, strip away basic rights, spy on citizens, and launch wars based
on lies, but where the people do not take over the nation's capital in
protest?"
--David Swanson

"U.S. citizens suspected of terror ties might be detained indefinitely and
barred from access to civilian courts under legislation proposed by the Bush
administration, say legal experts reviewing an early version of the bill."
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/07/28/bush_submit
s_new_terror_detainee_bill/

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