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RE: Re: Re: infor


I've given this speech to him and even taken him to a very nice little
nursery near his house.  I never realized that as a kid, my mother was
solely responsible for the gardens.  How is it that I learned tons of stuff
about plants and gardening from my mom and yet he apparently continues to be
clueless.  (I suppose the most obvious answer is their divorce! Seems
gardening wasn't they only thing they didn't communicate about)

Theresa

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [mailto:owner-gardenchat@hort.net]On
Behalf Of gardenqueen@academicplanet.com
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 12:43 PM
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Subject: Re: Re: Re: [CHAT] infor


Why does anyone listen to WMT people about plants anyway? They are not
the experts, even if you don't live to garden. Go to a nursery people
and get some GOOD advice!! Ugh. I give this speech often, I'll spare you
the full effect.


Pam Evans
Kemp, TX
zone 8A
----- Original Message -----
From: Kitty
Sent: 6/20/2004 10:47:22 AM
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] infor

> Not to be too hard on your father, (it is his day, after all) but I wonder

> if he bothered to read the label, or just relied on the WM people.

>

> Kitty

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: "Tchessie" <tchessie@comcast.net>

> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>

> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 9:44 AM

> Subject: RE: Re: [CHAT] infor

>

>

> > And then there are people like my father, whose understanding of plants
is

> > amazingly poor (he asked my what was wrong with the tomatos I planted
for

> > him week after I planted them because they had little yellow flowers and

> no

> > tomatos!).  I talked to him yesterday and he asked what I did about
worms

> on

> > the tomato plants- I told his take them off and squish them (I do 100%

> > organic).  He says, oh, the people at WALMART told me to us Sevin and
that

> > worked.  I told him of course it killed the worms and most everyother
bug

> > around.  Then, he tells me that his tomatos taste good. Yes, folks, he

> > sprayed with Sevin and then went out the next day, picked and ate one.
I

> > suggested that if the spray killed bugs, it likely wasn't too healthy
for

> > him.  His response- "the Walmart people didn't say anything about that".

> I

> > not so gently suggested that the "Walmart people" likely weren't a

> reliable

> > source of information on anything, much less poison.

> >

> > Theresa

> > Sac, CA

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [mailto:owner-gardenchat@hort.net]On

> > Behalf Of Kitty

> > Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 1:13 PM

> > To: gardenchat@hort.net

> > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] infor

> >

> >

> > Pam,

> > You must realize you are an exception.  Most people will not spend 16

> hours

> > a day watering their plants.  Many people will not live with plants with

> > holes in the leaves if there is a way to prevent it, organic or not.
When

> I

> > said not feasible, I meant not feasible for the general population; I

> wasn't

> > referring to myself.  I'm content to live with some destruction, others

> > won't or can't.  Right now I've got a bug here I found on one of my
lilies

> > last year.  There was just one last year.  I posted pictures, also
showed

> to

> > our Hort Ed.  While trying to get an ID, it destroyed the plant.  This

> year

> > I found 4 of them on a Deutzia.  Snipped the whole stem, bagged it and

> took

> > it in to CES.  He said possibly lacebug, but I'm not so sure.  Just
found

> 2

> > more on another lily. This bug will not go away with a shot of water, he

> > needs stronger measures and I'm not about to let him go crazy on my

> lilies.

> > Without an ID, though, it's hard to know what to use.

> >

> > Anyway, back to straight organic.  I don't know if you have Japanese

> Beetles

> > there, but nothing organic is going to stop them.  You can try Milky

> Spore,

> > but once the grubs die off there's nothing for MS to feed on and it goes

> > away.  Even if it did persist, they'll just wing it over to your nice

> plants

> > from your neighbor's untreated yard.

> >

> > I firmly believe in IPM and use even less than that warrants.  I'm
fairly

> > close to organic, including my fertilizers.  But most people won't spend

> $30

> > / bag to cover 2000 sq ft of lawn.  Shoot, my neighbor won't spend $5.

> >

> > For the activist, all organic is possible.  For the perectionist it is
not

> > feasible.  For the the general population of gardeners out there who
have

> a

> > garden as one of their many pastimes, who enjoy puttering in their
garden

> > occasionally, who maybe just are determined that their landscape be

> > presentable, but have no intention of reading up on organic methods, it

> > isn't going to happen.

> >

> > Ortho does too good a job marketing their chemicals.  People who just
want

> > the problem to go away are quick to grab "Bug-B-Gone"  I've not read the

> > label, but just the thought that they want every bug to be gone scares
me

> > because I know it must detrimentally affect the good bug population as

> well.

> > But not everyone has the level of interest that many of us share on this

> > list.  So many people have no more than an hour or 2 a week to deal with

> > their landscape and it is not realistic to expect that they will strive

> for

> > the organic solution.

> >

> > Kitty

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: <gardenqueen@academicplanet.com>

> > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>

> > Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 1:10 PM

> > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] infor

> >

> >

> > > Not feasible where darlin'?? I've been all organic since I started the

> > > bird/butterfly sanctuary 5-6 years ago and was 80% organic before. It

> > > works here at least. Joanne across the street does the same. Is it

> > > different there?

> > >

> > >

> > > Pam Evans

> > > Kemp, TX

> > > zone 8A

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > From: Kitty

> > > Sent: 6/19/2004 9:19:43 AM

> > > To: gardenchat@hort.net

> > > Subject: Re: [CHAT] infor

> > >

> > > > Ceres,

> > >

> > > > I have used Merit a couple of times with good results to protect my

> > birch

> > >

> > > > tree from Japanese Beetles.  I don't know how much bee activity
there

> > would

> > >

> > > > be around birch catkins. Merit had been suggested by our Hort Ed as
a

> > safer

> > >

> > > > product than those previously used, but no product of this sort is

> > >

> > > > completely safe.  I was concerned about the affect to soil organisms

> in

> > my

> > >

> > > > application.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > I've been on amessage board where, when the subject of Merit was

> raised,

> > >

> > > > folks came out vehemently against it for all sorts of reasons.  But

> the

> > >

> > > > objections came from people that I would guess to be totally organic

> > types.

> > >

> > > > In a better world everything would be organic, but with what we have

> > today,

> > >

> > > > it's not feasible.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > I no longer use Merit but this is mainly because I am a lazy
gardener

> > and I

> > >

> > > > don't resort to insecticides unless absolutely necessary.  Japanese

> > Beetles

> > >

> > > > seem to have declined in number in the past few years, but that is

> > probably

> > >

> > > > cyclical.  In a couple more years I may have to resort to such

> measures

> > >

> > > > again.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Kitty

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > ----- Original Message -----

> > >

> > > > From: <Cersgarden@aol.com>

> > >

> > > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>

> > >

> > > > Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 8:38 AM

> > >

> > > > Subject: [CHAT] infor

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > I am a lurker on an iris list.  I am sending a message copied from

> it.

> > >

> > > > What

> > >

> > > > > are your thoughts?  I have never used this product nor have I

> > researched

> > >

> > > > the

> > >

> > > > > use of.  The writer seems to be a very knowledgeable member of
this

> > list.

> > >

> > > > >     Ceres

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Generally systemic insecticides are considered to be reasonably
safe

> > to

> > >

> > > > > pollinators since they don't get excessive exposure via the pollen

> or

> > >

> > > > > nectar, but Merit may be a bit different. The active ingredient

> > >

> > > > > (imidacloprid) has two actions. One, at higher doses, is lethal to

> > >

> > > > insects.

> > >

> > > > > At lower doses it can affect behavior without directly killing the

> > insect,

> > >

> > > > > such as stopping aphids from feeding. It is the behavioral effects

> > that

> > >

> > > > are

> > >

> > > > > of concern regarding bees since it is claimed that imidacloprid
can

> > >

> > > > disrupt

> > >

> > > > > foraging activities.-- in fact some of it's uses were banned in

> France

> > >

> > > > > because of complaints from beekeepers. Bayer (who make it) deny

> these

> > >

> > > > > claims based on what seems like good research, and there haven't

> been

> > many

> > >

> > > > > complaints about its impact on bees in the US as far as I know.
This

> > is

> > >

> > > > all

> > >

> > > > > complicated by the fact that bee populations in the US have been

> > decimated

> > >

> > > > > by Varroa mites, and if colonies do decline, it could well be
mites

> > that

> > >

> > > > > are causing it. So, as usual, the situation is murky, and it
depends

> > who

> > >

> > > > > you believe. There are some interesting websites on this if anyone

> is

> > >

> > > > > interested in digging deeper. I have a couple of research projects

> at

> > the

> > >

> > > > > moment on this compound and its effects on insects, so the area is

> of

> > some

> > >

> > > > > interest to me and all of this may be more than you wanted to
know!.

> > Bob

> > >

> > > > > Hollingworth.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

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