Re: Re: Re: infor

Why does anyone listen to WMT people about plants anyway? They are not
the experts, even if you don't live to garden. Go to a nursery people
and get some GOOD advice!! Ugh. I give this speech often, I'll spare you
the full effect.


Pam Evans
Kemp, TX
zone 8A
----- Original Message -----
From: Kitty
Sent: 6/20/2004 10:47:22 AM
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] infor

> Not to be too hard on your father, (it is his day, after all) but I wonder

> if he bothered to read the label, or just relied on the WM people.

> 

> Kitty

> 

> ----- Original Message ----- 

> From: "Tchessie" <tchessie@comcast.net>

> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>

> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 9:44 AM

> Subject: RE: Re: [CHAT] infor

> 

> 

> > And then there are people like my father, whose understanding of plants is

> > amazingly poor (he asked my what was wrong with the tomatos I planted for

> > him week after I planted them because they had little yellow flowers and

> no

> > tomatos!).  I talked to him yesterday and he asked what I did about worms

> on

> > the tomato plants- I told his take them off and squish them (I do 100%

> > organic).  He says, oh, the people at WALMART told me to us Sevin and that

> > worked.  I told him of course it killed the worms and most everyother bug

> > around.  Then, he tells me that his tomatos taste good. Yes, folks, he

> > sprayed with Sevin and then went out the next day, picked and ate one.  I

> > suggested that if the spray killed bugs, it likely wasn't too healthy for

> > him.  His response- "the Walmart people didn't say anything about that".

> I

> > not so gently suggested that the "Walmart people" likely weren't a

> reliable

> > source of information on anything, much less poison.

> >

> > Theresa

> > Sac, CA

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [o*@hort.net]On

> > Behalf Of Kitty

> > Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 1:13 PM

> > To: gardenchat@hort.net

> > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] infor

> >

> >

> > Pam,

> > You must realize you are an exception.  Most people will not spend 16

> hours

> > a day watering their plants.  Many people will not live with plants with

> > holes in the leaves if there is a way to prevent it, organic or not.  When

> I

> > said not feasible, I meant not feasible for the general population; I

> wasn't

> > referring to myself.  I'm content to live with some destruction, others

> > won't or can't.  Right now I've got a bug here I found on one of my lilies

> > last year.  There was just one last year.  I posted pictures, also showed

> to

> > our Hort Ed.  While trying to get an ID, it destroyed the plant.  This

> year

> > I found 4 of them on a Deutzia.  Snipped the whole stem, bagged it and

> took

> > it in to CES.  He said possibly lacebug, but I'm not so sure.  Just found

> 2

> > more on another lily. This bug will not go away with a shot of water, he

> > needs stronger measures and I'm not about to let him go crazy on my

> lilies.

> > Without an ID, though, it's hard to know what to use.

> >

> > Anyway, back to straight organic.  I don't know if you have Japanese

> Beetles

> > there, but nothing organic is going to stop them.  You can try Milky

> Spore,

> > but once the grubs die off there's nothing for MS to feed on and it goes

> > away.  Even if it did persist, they'll just wing it over to your nice

> plants

> > from your neighbor's untreated yard.

> >

> > I firmly believe in IPM and use even less than that warrants.  I'm fairly

> > close to organic, including my fertilizers.  But most people won't spend

> $30

> > / bag to cover 2000 sq ft of lawn.  Shoot, my neighbor won't spend $5.

> >

> > For the activist, all organic is possible.  For the perectionist it is not

> > feasible.  For the the general population of gardeners out there who have

> a

> > garden as one of their many pastimes, who enjoy puttering in their garden

> > occasionally, who maybe just are determined that their landscape be

> > presentable, but have no intention of reading up on organic methods, it

> > isn't going to happen.

> >

> > Ortho does too good a job marketing their chemicals.  People who just want

> > the problem to go away are quick to grab "Bug-B-Gone"  I've not read the

> > label, but just the thought that they want every bug to be gone scares me

> > because I know it must detrimentally affect the good bug population as

> well.

> > But not everyone has the level of interest that many of us share on this

> > list.  So many people have no more than an hour or 2 a week to deal with

> > their landscape and it is not realistic to expect that they will strive

> for

> > the organic solution.

> >

> > Kitty

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: <gardenqueen@academicplanet.com>

> > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>

> > Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 1:10 PM

> > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] infor

> >

> >

> > > Not feasible where darlin'?? I've been all organic since I started the

> > > bird/butterfly sanctuary 5-6 years ago and was 80% organic before. It

> > > works here at least. Joanne across the street does the same. Is it

> > > different there?

> > >

> > >

> > > Pam Evans

> > > Kemp, TX

> > > zone 8A

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > From: Kitty

> > > Sent: 6/19/2004 9:19:43 AM

> > > To: gardenchat@hort.net

> > > Subject: Re: [CHAT] infor

> > >

> > > > Ceres,

> > >

> > > > I have used Merit a couple of times with good results to protect my

> > birch

> > >

> > > > tree from Japanese Beetles.  I don't know how much bee activity there

> > would

> > >

> > > > be around birch catkins. Merit had been suggested by our Hort Ed as a

> > safer

> > >

> > > > product than those previously used, but no product of this sort is

> > >

> > > > completely safe.  I was concerned about the affect to soil organisms

> in

> > my

> > >

> > > > application.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > I've been on amessage board where, when the subject of Merit was

> raised,

> > >

> > > > folks came out vehemently against it for all sorts of reasons.  But

> the

> > >

> > > > objections came from people that I would guess to be totally organic

> > types.

> > >

> > > > In a better world everything would be organic, but with what we have

> > today,

> > >

> > > > it's not feasible.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > I no longer use Merit but this is mainly because I am a lazy gardener

> > and I

> > >

> > > > don't resort to insecticides unless absolutely necessary.  Japanese

> > Beetles

> > >

> > > > seem to have declined in number in the past few years, but that is

> > probably

> > >

> > > > cyclical.  In a couple more years I may have to resort to such

> measures

> > >

> > > > again.

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Kitty

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > ----- Original Message -----

> > >

> > > > From: <Cersgarden@aol.com>

> > >

> > > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>

> > >

> > > > Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 8:38 AM

> > >

> > > > Subject: [CHAT] infor

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > > > I am a lurker on an iris list.  I am sending a message copied from

> it.

> > >

> > > > What

> > >

> > > > > are your thoughts?  I have never used this product nor have I

> > researched

> > >

> > > > the

> > >

> > > > > use of.  The writer seems to be a very knowledgeable member of this

> > list.

> > >

> > > > >     Ceres

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > > > Generally systemic insecticides are considered to be reasonably safe

> > to

> > >

> > > > > pollinators since they don't get excessive exposure via the pollen

> or

> > >

> > > > > nectar, but Merit may be a bit different. The active ingredient

> > >

> > > > > (imidacloprid) has two actions. One, at higher doses, is lethal to

> > >

> > > > insects.

> > >

> > > > > At lower doses it can affect behavior without directly killing the

> > insect,

> > >

> > > > > such as stopping aphids from feeding. It is the behavioral effects

> > that

> > >

> > > > are

> > >

> > > > > of concern regarding bees since it is claimed that imidacloprid can

> > >

> > > > disrupt

> > >

> > > > > foraging activities.-- in fact some of it's uses were banned in

> France

> > >

> > > > > because of complaints from beekeepers. Bayer (who make it) deny

> these

> > >

> > > > > claims based on what seems like good research, and there haven't

> been

> > many

> > >

> > > > > complaints about its impact on bees in the US as far as I know. This

> > is

> > >

> > > > all

> > >

> > > > > complicated by the fact that bee populations in the US have been

> > decimated

> > >

> > > > > by Varroa mites, and if colonies do decline, it could well be mites

> > that

> > >

> > > > > are causing it. So, as usual, the situation is murky, and it depends

> > who

> > >

> > > > > you believe. There are some interesting websites on this if anyone

> is

> > >

> > > > > interested in digging deeper. I have a couple of research projects

> at

> > the

> > >

> > > > > moment on this compound and its effects on insects, so the area is

> of

> > some

> > >

> > > > > interest to me and all of this may be more than you wanted to know!.

> > Bob

> > >

> > > > > Hollingworth.

> > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > > >

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