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RE: Re: Re: infor


Isn't that the truth!  Maybe if I can keep him from poisoning himself, he
actually seems like he wants to know something about gardening now : )

Theresa

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [mailto:owner-gardenchat@hort.net]On
Behalf Of Kitty
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 5:10 PM
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Subject: Re: Re: Re: [CHAT] infor


Theresa,
In my family, my mother handled the money.  We never had much but when she
died she left my dad in reasonably good shape.  He didn't know how to handle
money, promptly squandered everything and had to file bankruptcy.  Somehow I
learned how to handle my money from my mom, but he remained clueless.  I
think you learn what you want to learn.

Kitty

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tchessie" <tchessie@comcast.net>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 11:51 AM
Subject: RE: Re: Re: [CHAT] infor


> I've given this speech to him and even taken him to a very nice little
> nursery near his house.  I never realized that as a kid, my mother was
> solely responsible for the gardens.  How is it that I learned tons of
stuff
> about plants and gardening from my mom and yet he apparently continues to
be
> clueless.  (I suppose the most obvious answer is their divorce! Seems
> gardening wasn't they only thing they didn't communicate about)
>
> Theresa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [mailto:owner-gardenchat@hort.net]On
> Behalf Of gardenqueen@academicplanet.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 12:43 PM
> To: gardenchat@hort.net
> Subject: Re: Re: Re: [CHAT] infor
>
>
> Why does anyone listen to WMT people about plants anyway? They are not
> the experts, even if you don't live to garden. Go to a nursery people
> and get some GOOD advice!! Ugh. I give this speech often, I'll spare you
> the full effect.
>
>
> Pam Evans
> Kemp, TX
> zone 8A
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kitty
> Sent: 6/20/2004 10:47:22 AM
> To: gardenchat@hort.net
> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] infor
>
> > Not to be too hard on your father, (it is his day, after all) but I
wonder
>
> > if he bothered to read the label, or just relied on the WM people.
>
> >
>
> > Kitty
>
> >
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
>
> > From: "Tchessie" <tchessie@comcast.net>
>
> > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 9:44 AM
>
> > Subject: RE: Re: [CHAT] infor
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > And then there are people like my father, whose understanding of
plants
> is
>
> > > amazingly poor (he asked my what was wrong with the tomatos I planted
> for
>
> > > him week after I planted them because they had little yellow flowers
and
>
> > no
>
> > > tomatos!).  I talked to him yesterday and he asked what I did about
> worms
>
> > on
>
> > > the tomato plants- I told his take them off and squish them (I do 100%
>
> > > organic).  He says, oh, the people at WALMART told me to us Sevin and
> that
>
> > > worked.  I told him of course it killed the worms and most everyother
> bug
>
> > > around.  Then, he tells me that his tomatos taste good. Yes, folks, he
>
> > > sprayed with Sevin and then went out the next day, picked and ate one.
> I
>
> > > suggested that if the spray killed bugs, it likely wasn't too healthy
> for
>
> > > him.  His response- "the Walmart people didn't say anything about
that".
>
> > I
>
> > > not so gently suggested that the "Walmart people" likely weren't a
>
> > reliable
>
> > > source of information on anything, much less poison.
>
> > >
>
> > > Theresa
>
> > > Sac, CA
>
> > >
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
>
> > > From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [mailto:owner-gardenchat@hort.net]On
>
> > > Behalf Of Kitty
>
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 1:13 PM
>
> > > To: gardenchat@hort.net
>
> > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] infor
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Pam,
>
> > > You must realize you are an exception.  Most people will not spend 16
>
> > hours
>
> > > a day watering their plants.  Many people will not live with plants
with
>
> > > holes in the leaves if there is a way to prevent it, organic or not.
> When
>
> > I
>
> > > said not feasible, I meant not feasible for the general population; I
>
> > wasn't
>
> > > referring to myself.  I'm content to live with some destruction,
others
>
> > > won't or can't.  Right now I've got a bug here I found on one of my
> lilies
>
> > > last year.  There was just one last year.  I posted pictures, also
> showed
>
> > to
>
> > > our Hort Ed.  While trying to get an ID, it destroyed the plant.  This
>
> > year
>
> > > I found 4 of them on a Deutzia.  Snipped the whole stem, bagged it and
>
> > took
>
> > > it in to CES.  He said possibly lacebug, but I'm not so sure.  Just
> found
>
> > 2
>
> > > more on another lily. This bug will not go away with a shot of water,
he
>
> > > needs stronger measures and I'm not about to let him go crazy on my
>
> > lilies.
>
> > > Without an ID, though, it's hard to know what to use.
>
> > >
>
> > > Anyway, back to straight organic.  I don't know if you have Japanese
>
> > Beetles
>
> > > there, but nothing organic is going to stop them.  You can try Milky
>
> > Spore,
>
> > > but once the grubs die off there's nothing for MS to feed on and it
goes
>
> > > away.  Even if it did persist, they'll just wing it over to your nice
>
> > plants
>
> > > from your neighbor's untreated yard.
>
> > >
>
> > > I firmly believe in IPM and use even less than that warrants.  I'm
> fairly
>
> > > close to organic, including my fertilizers.  But most people won't
spend
>
> > $30
>
> > > / bag to cover 2000 sq ft of lawn.  Shoot, my neighbor won't spend $5.
>
> > >
>
> > > For the activist, all organic is possible.  For the perectionist it is
> not
>
> > > feasible.  For the the general population of gardeners out there who
> have
>
> > a
>
> > > garden as one of their many pastimes, who enjoy puttering in their
> garden
>
> > > occasionally, who maybe just are determined that their landscape be
>
> > > presentable, but have no intention of reading up on organic methods,
it
>
> > > isn't going to happen.
>
> > >
>
> > > Ortho does too good a job marketing their chemicals.  People who just
> want
>
> > > the problem to go away are quick to grab "Bug-B-Gone"  I've not read
the
>
> > > label, but just the thought that they want every bug to be gone scares
> me
>
> > > because I know it must detrimentally affect the good bug population as
>
> > well.
>
> > > But not everyone has the level of interest that many of us share on
this
>
> > > list.  So many people have no more than an hour or 2 a week to deal
with
>
> > > their landscape and it is not realistic to expect that they will
strive
>
> > for
>
> > > the organic solution.
>
> > >
>
> > > Kitty
>
> > >
>
> > > ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > From: <gardenqueen@academicplanet.com>
>
> > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
>
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 1:10 PM
>
> > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] infor
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Not feasible where darlin'?? I've been all organic since I started
the
>
> > > > bird/butterfly sanctuary 5-6 years ago and was 80% organic before.
It
>
> > > > works here at least. Joanne across the street does the same. Is it
>
> > > > different there?
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Pam Evans
>
> > > > Kemp, TX
>
> > > > zone 8A
>
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > > From: Kitty
>
> > > > Sent: 6/19/2004 9:19:43 AM
>
> > > > To: gardenchat@hort.net
>
> > > > Subject: Re: [CHAT] infor
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > Ceres,
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > I have used Merit a couple of times with good results to protect
my
>
> > > birch
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > tree from Japanese Beetles.  I don't know how much bee activity
> there
>
> > > would
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > be around birch catkins. Merit had been suggested by our Hort Ed
as
> a
>
> > > safer
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > product than those previously used, but no product of this sort is
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > completely safe.  I was concerned about the affect to soil
organisms
>
> > in
>
> > > my
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > application.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > I've been on amessage board where, when the subject of Merit was
>
> > raised,
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > folks came out vehemently against it for all sorts of reasons.
But
>
> > the
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > objections came from people that I would guess to be totally
organic
>
> > > types.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > In a better world everything would be organic, but with what we
have
>
> > > today,
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > it's not feasible.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > I no longer use Merit but this is mainly because I am a lazy
> gardener
>
> > > and I
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > don't resort to insecticides unless absolutely necessary.
Japanese
>
> > > Beetles
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > seem to have declined in number in the past few years, but that is
>
> > > probably
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > cyclical.  In a couple more years I may have to resort to such
>
> > measures
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > again.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > Kitty
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > From: <Cersgarden@aol.com>
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 8:38 AM
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > Subject: [CHAT] infor
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > I am a lurker on an iris list.  I am sending a message copied
from
>
> > it.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > What
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > are your thoughts?  I have never used this product nor have I
>
> > > researched
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > the
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > use of.  The writer seems to be a very knowledgeable member of
> this
>
> > > list.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > >     Ceres
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > Generally systemic insecticides are considered to be reasonably
> safe
>
> > > to
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > pollinators since they don't get excessive exposure via the
pollen
>
> > or
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > nectar, but Merit may be a bit different. The active ingredient
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > (imidacloprid) has two actions. One, at higher doses, is lethal
to
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > insects.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > At lower doses it can affect behavior without directly killing
the
>
> > > insect,
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > such as stopping aphids from feeding. It is the behavioral
effects
>
> > > that
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > are
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > of concern regarding bees since it is claimed that imidacloprid
> can
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > disrupt
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > foraging activities.-- in fact some of it's uses were banned in
>
> > France
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > because of complaints from beekeepers. Bayer (who make it) deny
>
> > these
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > claims based on what seems like good research, and there haven't
>
> > been
>
> > > many
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > complaints about its impact on bees in the US as far as I know.
> This
>
> > > is
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > all
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > complicated by the fact that bee populations in the US have been
>
> > > decimated
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > by Varroa mites, and if colonies do decline, it could well be
> mites
>
> > > that
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > are causing it. So, as usual, the situation is murky, and it
> depends
>
> > > who
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > you believe. There are some interesting websites on this if
anyone
>
> > is
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > interested in digging deeper. I have a couple of research
projects
>
> > at
>
> > > the
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > moment on this compound and its effects on insects, so the area
is
>
> > of
>
> > > some
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > interest to me and all of this may be more than you wanted to
> know!.
>
> > > Bob
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > > Hollingworth.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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