Re: Re: Politics/Bonnie

I preach that message all the time David. You should hear the lame
reasons I get for not voting. I'm busy, don't know the candidates, one
vote doesn't matter, it's not that important anyway - yadda, yadda. It's
a miracle my head just doesn't explode.


Pam Evans
Kemp, TX
zone 8A
----- Original Message -----
From: David Franzman
Sent: 6/28/2004 11:19:27 PM
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Subject: Re: [CHAT] Politics/Bonnie

> Bonnie, it's disturbing!  Politics is the give and take of ideas not dogma.
> Certainly my views have shifted after hearing a well presented case and as I
> age my beliefs blend and mellow.  Frankly, it's the extremes that irritate
> me on both sides.  Whoever doesn't agree with them are unthinking, godless
> and unAmerican.  I hate that!
> 
> I believe the media has much to do with that.  Instead of thoughtful
> discussion they have to get into these loud, bashing arguments calling each
> other names.  Just part of the dumbing down of America.  "What should we
> watch tonight honey the Worlds Wrestling Federation or the Riley Report?"
> Pretty pathetic!
> 
> One last thing since I'm on a roll:  If 40% are rock solid on one side or
> the other and only 6% are undecided and with only 50% of those elegable to
> vote actually doing so then roughly 26% of the electorate dictate to the
> rest of the country the direction we will follow for at least the next four
> years.  NOW THAT IS SCARY!  My God people do your civic duty, study the
> issues and vote.
> 
> David Franzman
> A Touch of the Tropics
> www.atouchofthetropics.net
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bonnie Holmes" <holmesbm@usit.net>
> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 8:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [CHAT] Politics
> 
> 
> > I agree that there seems to be growing intolerance for differing ideas and
> > that seems to be supported by some of the political analysis groups.
> Seems
> > that around 40% of the voters are stuck on each side with little movement
> > back and forth no matter what the news or issues.  Both parties target the
> > true 6% undecided...now THAT is scary for a democracy.   (Jesse, are you
> > truly in that 6%?)
> >
> > Husband and I went to see Fahrenheit 911 this afternoon...very
> > interesting...biased but definitely thought provoking.  I had heard about
> > some of the Saudi connections on a talk show a month back...no one knew
> > what the caller was talking about...there is also a book on this issue in
> > addition to Moore's take.
> >
> > Bonnie Zone 6+ ETN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: David Franzman <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
> > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > > Date: 06/28/2004 1:51:50 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [CHAT] Politics
> > >
> > > Let me add something to this.  Bonnie I agree with you that politics is
> a
> > > difficult subject in a gardening group.  I enjoy it because I enjoy
> > politics
> > > and the discussion of ideas.  I don't add too much to it though because
> I
> > > recognize that there are different ideas out there and not everybody
> likes
> > > debates.
> > >
> > > However, none of us had the tag "Re-Elect Nimrod and Ripoff for
> President"
> > > until Liz did which was on her first message she sent to the group.
> > Perhaps
> > > what she doesn't like is the fact that many of us don't agree with her
> > > position instead of the content and/or subject.  You see I find a
> growing
> > > lack of respect for differing views in this country from both the right
> > and
> > > left but I'm thoroughly sick of those who profess to be conservative
> > calling
> > > all of us in the middle or slightly left of center as lefties, liberals
> or
> > > commies and unAmerican to boot.
> > >
> > > Liz, if you didn't like politics mixed into the garden soil then why did
> > > your initial message have the Re-elect message at the bottom?  Go and
> see
> > > the movie!  Stretch your mind.  Keep an open mind and try and see what
> the
> > > other side sees sometimes.  It may not change your mind but it might
> give
> > > you a different perspective.
> > >
> > > David Franzman
> > > A Touch of the Tropics
> > > www.atouchofthetropics.net
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net>
> > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 9:37 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [CHAT] Fahrenheit 911
> > >
> > >
> > > > Bonnie, Liz, and All -
> > > > Here is the original posting:
> > > > "I saw this movie today, and all I can say is that it was awesome!
> > > Everyone
> > > > should make an effort to see it."
> > > > The responses were short items about ticket prices, distances to
> > theatres,
> > > > plans to see it, and acquisition news.
> > > > There was no mention of "stupidity" in regard to opposing views.  In
> > fact,
> > > > no opposing views were voiced.  I don't see any harm in someone
> > suggesting
> > > a
> > > > movie to the group.
> > > > In fact, I fully intend to see Two Brothers when it gets to a theatre
> > > close
> > > > to me.  I hope the dog-lovers out there aren't offended by my saying
> so.
> > > >
> > > > Kitty
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: "Bonnie & Bill Morgan" <wmorgan972@ameritech.net>
> > > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 10:42 PM
> > > > Subject: RE: [CHAT] Fahrenheit 911
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Liz, not all of us are left in more than our handedness.  It does
> > appear
> > > > > that those with left political leanings are more vocal at this point
> > > than
> > > > > those of us in the middle or leaning a little more right
> politically.
> > > I
> > > > am
> > > > > not a fan of political name calling and bashing either, regardless
> of
> > > > party.
> > > > > I do think that while there is freedom of speech, courtesy would
> > dictate
> > > > > that the political discussions should be done privately rather than
> in
> > > our
> > > > > normally friendly little garden chat group.
> > > > >
> > > > > Keeping it in this forum does make those of us with a different
> > > viewpoint
> > > > > feel as though we are being told we are "stupid" for seeing another
> > side
> > > > of
> > > > > things by the tone of recent discussions.  I don't carry on about
> > Kerry,
> > > > or
> > > > > Kennedy (only to name a few)  or the things I find so distasteful on
> > the
> > > > > left side, because I consider you all as friends and as individuals
> > > > capable
> > > > > of having independent ideas and I wouldn't want to make you think I
> > > didn't
> > > > > hold you in high esteem even though I disagree with much of what
> I've
> > > > heard
> > > > > politically on this list lately.
> > > > >
> > > > > I do love all of you out there, regardless of your politics, but I
> too
> > > am
> > > > > tiring of the one-sided nature of the political discussions as of
> > late.
> > > > > Could we all get back to more "friendly" and less political topics?
> > > Even
> > > > > topics regarding gardening, the ecology, natural resources and bills
> > > > > associated with that would be O.K. if it were couched as something
> for
> > > all
> > > > > to consider rather than laying blame and/or pointing fingers to this
> > > > > individual or party as if everything you read or hear in the press
> > were
> > > > > fact.  There are two sides to every story.  And while we
> finger-point
> > to
> > > > > some unnamed evil, remember that our society is what WE make of it
> and
> > > if
> > > > we
> > > > > wanted only one view, we could relax and let someone become
> dictator.
> > > > >
> > > > > O.K., I'm off my soapbox.
> > > > >
> > > > > Blessings,
> > > > > Bonnie (SW OH - zone 5)
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [o*@hort.net]
> On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of Elizabeth Gessler
> > > > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 7:43 PM
> > > > > To: gardenchat@hort.net
> > > > > Subject: RE: [CHAT] Farenheit 911
> > > > >
> > > > > Can someone please sned me the instructions to unsubscribe from this
> > > list.
> > > > I
> > > > > wasn't aware that this was a politic list with obvious very left
> > > leanings.
> > > > > Liz in PA
> > > > >
> > > > > Re-elect Bush-Cheney in 2004
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [o*@hort.net]
> On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of Kitty
> > > > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 7:49 PM
> > > > > To: gardenchat@hort.net
> > > > > Subject: Re: [CHAT] Farenheit 911
> > > > >
> > > > > I really would love to see it, almost went to the first showing
> today
> > at
> > > > > 11:55.  But I reluctantly decided I couldn't spend the $10 it would
> > cost
> > > > me
> > > > > on a movie.
> > > > > I was thrilled to read, "When Fahrenheit 9/11 opened in New York on
> > > > > Wednesday, it broke box-office records, beating out even Men in
> Black
> > > with
> > > > > wall-to-wall sold-out shows"
> > > > >
> > > > > Kitty
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > > From: <Zemuly@aol.com>
> > > > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 6:22 PM
> > > > > Subject: [CHAT] Farenheit 911
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I saw this movie today, and all I can say is that it was awesome!
> > > > > Everyone
> > > > > > should make an effort to see it.
> > > > > > zem
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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