Re: Re: Politics/Bonnie

My my - good one lady.

Pam Evans
Kemp, TX
zone 8A
----- Original Message -----
From: cathy carpenter
Sent: 6/29/2004 12:00:46 PM
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Subject: Re: [CHAT] Politics/Bonnie

> Ok, I guess I'm on a quote kick, but this seems apropos:
> 
> We live in terror because persuasion is no longer possible...because we  
> live in a world of abstractions, or bureaus and machines, or absolute  
> ideas and crude messianism. We suffocate among people who think they  
> are absolutely right, whether in their machines or in their ideas. And  
> for all who can live only in an atmosphere of human dialogue and  
> sociability, this silence is the end of the world.
> 									--Albert Camus
> 
> Cathy
> On Monday, June 28, 2004, at 11:19 PM, David Franzman wrote:
> 
> > Bonnie, it's disturbing!  Politics is the give and take of ideas not  
> > dogma.
> > Certainly my views have shifted after hearing a well presented case  
> > and as I
> > age my beliefs blend and mellow.  Frankly, it's the extremes that  
> > irritate
> > me on both sides.  Whoever doesn't agree with them are unthinking,  
> > godless
> > and unAmerican.  I hate that!
> >
> > I believe the media has much to do with that.  Instead of thoughtful
> > discussion they have to get into these loud, bashing arguments calling  
> > each
> > other names.  Just part of the dumbing down of America.  "What should  
> > we
> > watch tonight honey the Worlds Wrestling Federation or the Riley  
> > Report?"
> > Pretty pathetic!
> >
> > One last thing since I'm on a roll:  If 40% are rock solid on one side  
> > or
> > the other and only 6% are undecided and with only 50% of those  
> > elegable to
> > vote actually doing so then roughly 26% of the electorate dictate to  
> > the
> > rest of the country the direction we will follow for at least the next  
> > four
> > years.  NOW THAT IS SCARY!  My God people do your civic duty, study the
> > issues and vote.
> >
> > David Franzman
> > A Touch of the Tropics
> > www.atouchofthetropics.net
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bonnie Holmes" <holmesbm@usit.net>
> > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 8:36 PM
> > Subject: Re: [CHAT] Politics
> >
> >
> >> I agree that there seems to be growing intolerance for differing  
> >> ideas and
> >> that seems to be supported by some of the political analysis groups.
> > Seems
> >> that around 40% of the voters are stuck on each side with little  
> >> movement
> >> back and forth no matter what the news or issues.  Both parties  
> >> target the
> >> true 6% undecided...now THAT is scary for a democracy.   (Jesse, are  
> >> you
> >> truly in that 6%?)
> >>
> >> Husband and I went to see Fahrenheit 911 this afternoon...very
> >> interesting...biased but definitely thought provoking.  I had heard  
> >> about
> >> some of the Saudi connections on a talk show a month back...no one  
> >> knew
> >> what the caller was talking about...there is also a book on this  
> >> issue in
> >> addition to Moore's take.
> >>
> >> Bonnie Zone 6+ ETN
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> [Original Message]
> >>> From: David Franzman <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
> >>> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> >>> Date: 06/28/2004 1:51:50 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [CHAT] Politics
> >>>
> >>> Let me add something to this.  Bonnie I agree with you that politics  
> >>> is
> > a
> >>> difficult subject in a gardening group.  I enjoy it because I enjoy
> >> politics
> >>> and the discussion of ideas.  I don't add too much to it though  
> >>> because
> > I
> >>> recognize that there are different ideas out there and not everybody
> > likes
> >>> debates.
> >>>
> >>> However, none of us had the tag "Re-Elect Nimrod and Ripoff for
> > President"
> >>> until Liz did which was on her first message she sent to the group.
> >> Perhaps
> >>> what she doesn't like is the fact that many of us don't agree with  
> >>> her
> >>> position instead of the content and/or subject.  You see I find a
> > growing
> >>> lack of respect for differing views in this country from both the  
> >>> right
> >> and
> >>> left but I'm thoroughly sick of those who profess to be conservative
> >> calling
> >>> all of us in the middle or slightly left of center as lefties,  
> >>> liberals
> > or
> >>> commies and unAmerican to boot.
> >>>
> >>> Liz, if you didn't like politics mixed into the garden soil then why  
> >>> did
> >>> your initial message have the Re-elect message at the bottom?  Go and
> > see
> >>> the movie!  Stretch your mind.  Keep an open mind and try and see  
> >>> what
> > the
> >>> other side sees sometimes.  It may not change your mind but it might
> > give
> >>> you a different perspective.
> >>>
> >>> David Franzman
> >>> A Touch of the Tropics
> >>> www.atouchofthetropics.net
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net>
> >>> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> >>> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 9:37 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [CHAT] Fahrenheit 911
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Bonnie, Liz, and All -
> >>>> Here is the original posting:
> >>>> "I saw this movie today, and all I can say is that it was awesome!
> >>> Everyone
> >>>> should make an effort to see it."
> >>>> The responses were short items about ticket prices, distances to
> >> theatres,
> >>>> plans to see it, and acquisition news.
> >>>> There was no mention of "stupidity" in regard to opposing views.  In
> >> fact,
> >>>> no opposing views were voiced.  I don't see any harm in someone
> >> suggesting
> >>> a
> >>>> movie to the group.
> >>>> In fact, I fully intend to see Two Brothers when it gets to a  
> >>>> theatre
> >>> close
> >>>> to me.  I hope the dog-lovers out there aren't offended by my saying
> > so.
> >>>>
> >>>> Kitty
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Bonnie & Bill Morgan" <wmorgan972@ameritech.net>
> >>>> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> >>>> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 10:42 PM
> >>>> Subject: RE: [CHAT] Fahrenheit 911
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Liz, not all of us are left in more than our handedness.  It does
> >> appear
> >>>>> that those with left political leanings are more vocal at this  
> >>>>> point
> >>> than
> >>>>> those of us in the middle or leaning a little more right
> > politically.
> >>> I
> >>>> am
> >>>>> not a fan of political name calling and bashing either, regardless
> > of
> >>>> party.
> >>>>> I do think that while there is freedom of speech, courtesy would
> >> dictate
> >>>>> that the political discussions should be done privately rather than
> > in
> >>> our
> >>>>> normally friendly little garden chat group.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Keeping it in this forum does make those of us with a different
> >>> viewpoint
> >>>>> feel as though we are being told we are "stupid" for seeing another
> >> side
> >>>> of
> >>>>> things by the tone of recent discussions.  I don't carry on about
> >> Kerry,
> >>>> or
> >>>>> Kennedy (only to name a few)  or the things I find so distasteful  
> >>>>> on
> >> the
> >>>>> left side, because I consider you all as friends and as individuals
> >>>> capable
> >>>>> of having independent ideas and I wouldn't want to make you think I
> >>> didn't
> >>>>> hold you in high esteem even though I disagree with much of what
> > I've
> >>>> heard
> >>>>> politically on this list lately.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I do love all of you out there, regardless of your politics, but I
> > too
> >>> am
> >>>>> tiring of the one-sided nature of the political discussions as of
> >> late.
> >>>>> Could we all get back to more "friendly" and less political topics?
> >>> Even
> >>>>> topics regarding gardening, the ecology, natural resources and  
> >>>>> bills
> >>>>> associated with that would be O.K. if it were couched as something
> > for
> >>> all
> >>>>> to consider rather than laying blame and/or pointing fingers to  
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> individual or party as if everything you read or hear in the press
> >> were
> >>>>> fact.  There are two sides to every story.  And while we
> > finger-point
> >> to
> >>>>> some unnamed evil, remember that our society is what WE make of it
> > and
> >>> if
> >>>> we
> >>>>> wanted only one view, we could relax and let someone become
> > dictator.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> O.K., I'm off my soapbox.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Blessings,
> >>>>> Bonnie (SW OH - zone 5)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [o*@hort.net]
> > On
> >>>> Behalf
> >>>>> Of Elizabeth Gessler
> >>>>> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 7:43 PM
> >>>>> To: gardenchat@hort.net
> >>>>> Subject: RE: [CHAT] Farenheit 911
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Can someone please sned me the instructions to unsubscribe from  
> >>>>> this
> >>> list.
> >>>> I
> >>>>> wasn't aware that this was a politic list with obvious very left
> >>> leanings.
> >>>>> Liz in PA
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Re-elect Bush-Cheney in 2004
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: owner-gardenchat@hort.net [o*@hort.net]
> > On
> >>>> Behalf
> >>>>> Of Kitty
> >>>>> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 7:49 PM
> >>>>> To: gardenchat@hort.net
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [CHAT] Farenheit 911
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I really would love to see it, almost went to the first showing
> > today
> >> at
> >>>>> 11:55.  But I reluctantly decided I couldn't spend the $10 it would
> >> cost
> >>>> me
> >>>>> on a movie.
> >>>>> I was thrilled to read, "When Fahrenheit 9/11 opened in New York on
> >>>>> Wednesday, it broke box-office records, beating out even Men in
> > Black
> >>> with
> >>>>> wall-to-wall sold-out shows"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Kitty
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: <Zemuly@aol.com>
> >>>>> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> >>>>> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 6:22 PM
> >>>>> Subject: [CHAT] Farenheit 911
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I saw this movie today, and all I can say is that it was awesome!
> >>>>> Everyone
> >>>>>> should make an effort to see it.
> >>>>>> zem
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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