Re: /schools

At risk of being strung up, I think that there is much to be said for vouchers. Why shouldn't parents decide where to send their children? Especially if they are not happy with what is produced by the public education system? Its called putting money where your mouth is. Why should the super wealthy be the only ones to have that privilege?
Cathy
On Wednesday, May 19, 2004, at 09:54 AM, Kitty wrote:

I understand your theory, David.  And, I'm sorry if my reply sounded
'heated'.  Not so, just speaking up.

However, if your theory were to be put into practice - which it can't be -
there'd be less money to go around. I have no idea how many millions of kids
are in private schools, but if they were all sent to public schools, the
system would collapse. Public schools are using the funds from taxes that
pay for private kids on the public kids and still can't make ends meet.

Also, one of the great privleges we as Americans enjoy is choice. I don't
approve of home-schooling, but I do believe those parents have the right to
choose that route. I also believe that if you want special schooling for
your kids - like the nutcases who enroll their kids in nursery school while
they are still in the womb - you can make that choice. To say NO to these
choices and to private school simply because you think it could improve
public schools, goes against the grain of our society. It's socialistic or
maybe even communistic - both systems with good ideals and properties - that
will not necessarily fix the public school problem. Public schools must fix
themselves, thus making themselves attractive, by choice, to consumers.

Also - the best and the brightest are not necessarily in private schools. W
went to private schools.

Kitty

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:14 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools


"Too broad a statement, David."

Kitty, I don't want to get into a heated debate over what is simply my
belief however I don't understand why your personal experience with
parochial schools makes my statement too broad. My point was that if we
were all sent to the same institutions of learning instead of separate
whether for personal reasons or wealth the entire society would have more
concern for the welfare of public education which as you must admit turns
out far more children than private. Therefore our schools would be better
because there would be far more involvement by those who wield more power
within our society.

Nobody would argue that private institutions are bad places for learning.
Far from it. In fact, what they do is funnel the best and the brightest
out
of the public school system and even worse take the most powerful people
in
the country and make public education not their problem.


David Franzman
A Touch of the Tropics
www.atouchofthetropics.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools


I've said this all my adult life: Private schools are the bane of
this
country.
Too broad a statement, David.
Speaking from my experience of 12 years of parochial school, which is
private school, but not quite the private school that Bill Gate's kids
would
attend.......
I was able to receive a good education with, I believe, less of the
interuptions you mentioned in another post. Baby-sitting didn't happen
in
my classes. Can't behave ? Out you go. My parents paid tuition for 3
of
us and we weren't well off by any standards. All the parents that pay
tuition for parochial schools get no tax break from the govt, and yet
they
do not make use of funds that the govt has assigned for public schools.
For
12 yrs x 3, my folks paid taxes which went to public schools AND they
paid
tuition. This allows the public schools extra funds. It's not our
fault
they didn't use it wisely. If I had had kids, they too would have
attended
parochial school.

Kitty

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools


Melody (I'm sorry folks I realize this is a garden group and not a
soapbox
for political agendas) I think the problem is in the reality. The
reality
is that there are far too many students in California who don't care
and
whose parents don't care whether they get an education or not. Fact
is
that
there is only so much money and resources and the way we casually
spend
money in this country insures a bleak future for education.

I've said this all my adult life: Private schools are the bane of
this
country. They guarantee unequal education. Send Bill Gate's and
Warren
Buffet's kids to public schools and we wouldn't be having this
discussion
right now. But as long as we don't we lose untold thousands of bright
kids
who don't have the resources to a good education and hence fall
through
the
cracks.

David Franzman
A Touch of the Tropics
www.atouchofthetropics.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Melody" <mhobertm@excite.com>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools


DF: This is the result of a poorly thought out and woefully
underfunded 
"No Child Left Behind Act", brought to you courtesy of our current
government officials. In order to continue qualifying for federal
financial aid for school districts, each school must meet grade
level
requirements, you know. Well, if a certain percentage of the
children
can't make it and that prevents the school from getting funding,
then
what is the logical step? To reduce the level of difficulty of what
is
being taught to the lowest common denominator, i.e. dumbing down. In
it's purest form, NCLB would be a godsend to the children of
America...teaching them to reach for the highest standards. In it's
current bastardized version, it's a nightmare! Political action,
though...the strength of character to stand up for what you believe
in...is the only thing that will change this unfortunate course of
action our elected officials have embarked upon. Write or call your
local federal and state legislators and demand that they fully fund
the
NCLB act. Okay...off the soapbox now...sorry, folks!



Melody, IA (Z 5/4)

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious."
--Albert Einstein

 --- On Mon 05/17, David Franzman < dfranzma@pacbell.net > wrote:
From: David Franzman [mailto: dfranzma@pacbell.net]
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 20:41:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools

No, no, no Pam! It's "Can I supersize that for you!" Man, could I
tell
you<br>stories about my kids school. They watch more movies than the
attendants at<br>the Sundance Movie Festival. What's worse is that
not
only are most of the<br>movies out of context with the class but
many
of
them are...ugh...cartoons.<br>Now are we talking about an elementary
school? Nope! High school. The<br>coup d' grace was when my daughter
came home from school and she told me<br>that they watched, in
Spanish 
class, a Flintstones cartoon movie...IN<br>ENGLISH! Oh, it did have
Spanish subtitles. The schools are dumbing down<br>our kids and I
find 
it repugnant.<br><br>David Franzman<br>A Touch of the
Tropics<br>www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>----- Original
Message ----- 
<br>From: <gardenqueen@academicplanet.com><br>To:
<gardenchat@hort.net><br>Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 7:35
PM<br>Subject:
Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools<br><br><br>> Agreed. I've seen
what
the local public schools produce here - you want<br>fries w/ that?
Appalling.<br>><br>> Pam Evans<br>> Kemp, TX<br>> zone 8A<br>> -----
Original Message -----<br>> From: james singer<br>> Sent: 5/17/2004
4:24:57 PM<br>> To: gardenchat@hort.net<br>> Subject: Re: [CHAT] New
oleander<br>><br>> > Yes, they are. And I think the Montessori
environment is perfect to<br>> > bring out their curiosity. I think
the 
best part--that older children<br>> > have responsibilities in the
education of younger children--encourages<br>> > a kind of
intellectual
development that simply does not occur in other<br>> > settings. And
I
think that is why a high percentage of Montessori<br>> > graduates
succeed at university.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > On Monday, May 17, 2004,
at
09:04 AM, Zemuly@aol.com wrote:<br>> ><br>> > > In a message dated
5/17/2004 4:08:07 AM Central Standard Time,<br>> > > jsinger@igc.org
writes:<br>> > > Ms. Fatma teaches the primary grades in a
Montessori 
school.<br>> > > I volunteer with that same age group at our local
Montessori school.<br>> > > That<br>> > > age is the gre

atest. They are adorable and so eager to learn.<br>> > > zem<br>> >
<br>> > >



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Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!<br>> > >
http://www.hort.net/funds/<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > Island Jim<br>>

Southwest Florida<br>> > Zone 10<br>> > 27.0 N, 82.4 W<br>> ><br>> >



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