Re: /schools

Super wealthy?
Back in 1974 I worked full time in a grocery store after dropping out of
college for awhile.  My mother did my taxes and when she saw that I'd made a
whopping $10,000 that year she accidentally blurted out that I'd made about
the same as my dad.  My parents put 3 daughters each through 12 years of
parochial school and college (away from home).  We had help from Indiana as
children of a disabled veteran for college.  But my parents believed in a
better education for their kids and simply did without so we could have it.
They were not super wealthy.  Not quite poor, but certainly not well off by
any means.

I don't know if I'm for or against vouchers, but I do know that it is
possible to get a good education if you want it bad enough.  And if you
can't get it in a public school, you find a way to get it elsewhere.

Kitty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "cathy carpenter" <cathyc@rnet.com>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [CHAT] /schools


> At risk of being strung up, I think that there is much to be said for
> vouchers. Why shouldn't  parents decide where to send their children?
> Especially if they are not happy with what is produced by the public
> education system? Its called putting money where your mouth is. Why
> should the super wealthy be the only ones to have that privilege?
> Cathy
> On Wednesday, May 19, 2004, at 09:54 AM, Kitty wrote:
>
> > I understand your theory, David.  And, I'm sorry if my reply sounded
> > 'heated'.  Not so, just speaking up.
> >
> > However, if your theory were to be put into practice - which it can't
> > be -
> > there'd be less money to go around. I have no idea how many millions
> > of kids
> > are in private schools, but if they were all sent to public schools,
> > the
> > system would collapse.  Public schools are using the funds from taxes
> > that
> > pay for private kids on the public kids and still can't make ends meet.
> >
> > Also, one of the great privleges we as Americans enjoy is choice.  I
> > don't
> > approve of home-schooling, but I do believe those parents have the
> > right to
> > choose that route.  I also believe that if you want special schooling
> > for
> > your kids - like the nutcases who enroll their kids in nursery school
> > while
> > they are still in the womb - you can make that choice.  To say NO to
> > these
> > choices and to private school simply because you think it could improve
> > public schools, goes against the grain of our society.  It's
> > socialistic or
> > maybe even communistic - both systems with good ideals and properties
> > - that
> > will not necessarily fix the public school problem.  Public schools
> > must fix
> > themselves, thus making themselves attractive, by choice, to consumers.
> >
> > Also - the best and the brightest are not necessarily in private
> > schools. W
> > went to private schools.
> >
> > Kitty
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
> > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:14 AM
> > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> >
> >
> >> "Too broad a statement, David."
> >>
> >> Kitty, I don't want to get into a heated debate over what is simply my
> >> belief however I don't understand why your personal experience with
> >> parochial schools makes my statement too broad.  My point was that if
> >> we
> >> were all sent to the same institutions of learning instead of separate
> >> whether for personal reasons or wealth the entire society would have
> >> more
> >> concern for the welfare of public education which as you must admit
> >> turns
> >> out far more children than private.  Therefore our schools would be
> >> better
> >> because there would be far more involvement by those who wield more
> >> power
> >> within our society.
> >>
> >> Nobody would argue that private institutions are bad places for
> >> learning.
> >> Far from it.  In fact, what they do is funnel the best and the
> >> brightest
> > out
> >> of the public school system and even worse take the most powerful
> >> people
> > in
> >> the country and make public education not their problem.
> >>
> >>
> >> David Franzman
> >> A Touch of the Tropics
> >> www.atouchofthetropics.net
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net>
> >> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:48 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> >>
> >>
> >>>> I've said this all my adult life:  Private schools are the bane of
> > this
> >>>> country.
> >>> Too broad a statement, David.
> >>> Speaking from my experience of 12 years of parochial school, which is
> >>> private school, but not quite the private school that Bill Gate's
> >>> kids
> >> would
> >>> attend.......
> >>> I was able to receive a good education with, I believe, less of the
> >>> interuptions you mentioned in another post.  Baby-sitting didn't
> >>> happen
> > in
> >>> my classes.  Can't behave ?  Out you go.  My parents paid tuition
> >>> for 3
> > of
> >>> us and we weren't well off by any standards.  All the parents that
> >>> pay
> >>> tuition for parochial schools get no tax break from the govt, and yet
> > they
> >>> do not make use of funds that the govt has assigned for public
> >>> schools.
> >> For
> >>> 12 yrs x 3, my folks paid taxes which went to public schools AND they
> > paid
> >>> tuition.  This allows the public schools extra funds.  It's not our
> > fault
> >>> they didn't use it wisely.  If I had had kids, they too would have
> >> attended
> >>> parochial school.
> >>>
> >>> Kitty
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
> >>> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:11 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Melody (I'm sorry folks I realize this is a garden group and not a
> >> soapbox
> >>>> for political agendas) I think the problem is in the reality.  The
> >> reality
> >>>> is that there are far too many students in California who don't care
> > and
> >>>> whose parents don't care whether they get an education or not.  Fact
> > is
> >>> that
> >>>> there is only so much money and resources and the way we casually
> > spend
> >>>> money in this country insures a bleak future for education.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've said this all my adult life:  Private schools are the bane of
> > this
> >>>> country.  They guarantee unequal education.  Send Bill Gate's and
> > Warren
> >>>> Buffet's kids to public schools and we wouldn't be having this
> >> discussion
> >>>> right now.  But as long as we don't we lose untold thousands of
> >>>> bright
> >>> kids
> >>>> who don't have the resources to a good education and hence fall
> > through
> >>> the
> >>>> cracks.
> >>>>
> >>>> David Franzman
> >>>> A Touch of the Tropics
> >>>> www.atouchofthetropics.net
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Melody" <mhobertm@excite.com>
> >>>> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:03 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> DF: This is the result of a poorly thought out and woefully
> >> underfunded
> >>>>> "No Child Left Behind Act", brought to you courtesy of our current
> >>>>> government officials. In order to continue qualifying for federal
> >>>>> financial aid for school districts, each school must meet grade
> > level
> >>>>> requirements, you know. Well, if a certain percentage of the
> > children
> >>>>> can't make it and that prevents the school from getting funding,
> > then
> >>>>> what is the logical step? To reduce the level of difficulty of what
> > is
> >>>>> being taught to the lowest common denominator, i.e. dumbing down.
> >>>>> In
> >>>>> it's purest form, NCLB would be a godsend to the children of
> >>>>> America...teaching them to reach for the highest standards. In it's
> >>>>> current bastardized version, it's a nightmare! Political action,
> >>>>> though...the strength of character to stand up for what you believe
> >>>>> in...is the only thing that will change this unfortunate course of
> >>>>> action our elected officials have embarked upon. Write or call your
> >>>>> local federal and state legislators and demand that they fully fund
> >> the
> >>>>> NCLB act. Okay...off the soapbox now...sorry, folks!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Melody, IA (Z 5/4)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious."
> >>>>> --Albert Einstein
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  --- On Mon 05/17, David Franzman < dfranzma@pacbell.net > wrote:
> >>>>> From: David Franzman [mailto: dfranzma@pacbell.net]
> >>>>> To: gardenchat@hort.net
> >>>>> Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 20:41:32 -0700
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools
> >>>>>
> >>>>> No, no, no Pam! It's "Can I supersize that for you!" Man, could I
> > tell
> >>>>> you<br>stories about my kids school. They watch more movies than
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> attendants at<br>the Sundance Movie Festival. What's worse is that
> > not
> >>>>> only are most of the<br>movies out of context with the class but
> > many
> >> of
> >>>>> them are...ugh...cartoons.<br>Now are we talking about an
> >>>>> elementary
> >>>>> school? Nope! High school. The<br>coup d' grace was when my
> >>>>> daughter
> >>>>> came home from school and she told me<br>that they watched, in
> > Spanish
> >>>>> class, a Flintstones cartoon movie...IN<br>ENGLISH! Oh, it did have
> >>>>> Spanish subtitles. The schools are dumbing down<br>our kids and I
> > find
> >>>>> it repugnant.<br><br>David Franzman<br>A Touch of the
> >>>>> Tropics<br>www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>----- Original
> > Message -----
> >>>>> <br>From: <gardenqueen@academicplanet.com><br>To:
> >>>>> <gardenchat@hort.net><br>Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 7:35
> >> PM<br>Subject:
> >>>>> Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools<br><br><br>> Agreed. I've seen
> >> what
> >>>>> the local public schools produce here - you want<br>fries w/ that?
> >>>>> Appalling.<br>><br>> Pam Evans<br>> Kemp, TX<br>> zone 8A<br>>
> >>>>> -----
> >>>>> Original Message -----<br>> From: james singer<br>> Sent: 5/17/2004
> >>>>> 4:24:57 PM<br>> To: gardenchat@hort.net<br>> Subject: Re: [CHAT]
> >>>>> New
> >>>>> oleander<br>><br>> > Yes, they are. And I think the Montessori
> >>>>> environment is perfect to<br>> > bring out their curiosity. I think
> >> the
> >>>>> best part--that older children<br>> > have responsibilities in the
> >>>>> education of younger children--encourages<br>> > a kind of
> >> intellectual
> >>>>> development that simply does not occur in other<br>> > settings.
> >>>>> And
> > I
> >>>>> think that is why a high percentage of Montessori<br>> > graduates
> >>>>> succeed at university.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > On Monday, May 17,
> >>>>> 2004,
> >> at
> >>>>> 09:04 AM, Zemuly@aol.com wrote:<br>> ><br>> > > In a message dated
> >>>>> 5/17/2004 4:08:07 AM Central Standard Time,<br>> > >
> >>>>> jsinger@igc.org
> >>>>> writes:<br>> > > Ms. Fatma teaches the primary grades in a
> > Montessori
> >>>>> school.<br>> > > I volunteer with that same age group at our local
> >>>>> Montessori school.<br>> > > That<br>> > > age is the gre
> >>>>>
> >>>>> atest. They are adorable and so eager to learn.<br>> > > zem<br>> >
> >>>>>> <br>> > >
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
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> >>
> >>>>> Southwest Florida<br>> > Zone 10<br>> > 27.0 N, 82.4 W<br>> ><br>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
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