Re: Re: /schools

DF: Just out of curiosity...what did you do for a living before the hibs. consumed you?


Melody, IA (Z 5/4)

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious."    
--Albert Einstein

 --- On Thu 05/20, David Franzman < dfranzma@pacbell.net > wrote:
From: David Franzman [mailto: dfranzma@pacbell.net]
To: gardenchat@hort.net
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 22:16:47 -0700
Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools

It's funny Kitty, because like Eve I'm pretty middle of the road except
with<br>two things education and health care. On the other side though
I'm a<br>personal responsibility type of guy. I hate the victimization
thing that we<br>have going on in this country. Typically that's an
excuse which I can't<br>stand. And if they pass anymore laws trying to
protect me from myself I may<br>just commit hari kari...or is that
against the law?<br><br>With education you simply can't have a democracy
without a well educated<br>populace. And of course diverse sources of
news but that's a different<br>topic. I assure you Kitty that if J. Paul
Getty's kids went to public<br>schools...they would find the
money.<br><br>With health care I've spent millions of dollars on
research and I'm fairly<br>certain that a germ doesn't stop at gated
communities. So, we had better<br>find a way to pay for that also or not
only will we have a bunch of people<br>who can't add past 2 + 2 but
they'll be disease carriers as well.<br><br>David Franzman<br>A Touch of
the Tropics<br>www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>----- Original Message
----- <br>From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net><br>To:
<gardenchat@hort.net><br>Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:54
AM<br>Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools<br><br><br>> I understand your
theory, David. And, I'm sorry if my reply sounded<br>> 'heated'. Not so,
just speaking up.<br>><br>> However, if your theory were to be put into
practice - which it can't be -<br>> there'd be less money to go around.
I have no idea how many millions of<br>kids<br>> are in private schools,
but if they were all sent to public schools, the<br>> system would
collapse. Public schools are using the funds from taxes that<br>> pay
for private kids on the public kids and still can't make ends
meet.<br>><br>> Also, one of the great privleges we as Americans enjoy
is choice. I don't<br>> approve of home-schooling, but I do believe
those parents have the right<br>to<br>> choose that route. I also
believe that if you want special schooling for<

br>> your kids - like the nutcases who enroll their kids in nursery
school<br>while<br>> they are still in the womb - you can make that
choice. To say NO to these<br>> choices and to private school simply
because you think it could improve<br>> public schools, goes against the
grain of our society. It's socialistic<br>or<br>> maybe even communistic
- both systems with good ideals and properties -<br>that<br>> will not
necessarily fix the public school problem. Public schools
must<br>fix<br>> themselves, thus making themselves attractive, by
choice, to consumers.<br>><br>> Also - the best and the brightest are
not necessarily in private schools.<br>W<br>> went to private
schools.<br>><br>> Kitty<br>><br>> ----- Original Message ----- <br>>
From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net><br>> To:
<gardenchat@hort.net><br>> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:14 AM<br>>
Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools<br>><br>><br>> > "Too broad a
statement, David."<br>> ><br>> > Kitty, I don't want to get into a
heated debate over what is simply my<br>> > belief however I don't
understand why your personal experience with<br>> > parochial schools
makes my statement too broad. My point was that if we<br>> > were all
sent to the same institutions of learning instead of separate<br>> >
whether for personal reasons or wealth the entire society would
have<br>more<br>> > concern for the welfare of public education which as
you must admit<br>turns<br>> > out far more children than private.
Therefore our schools would be<br>better<br>> > because there would be
far more involvement by those who wield more<br>power<br>> > within our
society.<br>> ><br>> > Nobody would argue that private institutions are
bad places for<br>learning.<br>> > Far from it. In fact, what they do is
funnel the best and the brightest<br>> out<br>> > of the public school
system and even worse take the most powerful people<br>> in<br>> > the
country and make public education not their problem.<br>> ><br>> ><br>>
> David Franzman<br>> > A Touch of the Tropics<br>> > w

ww
.atouchofthetropics.net<br>> > ----- Original Message ----- <br>> >
From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net><br>> > To: <gardenchat@hort.net><br>>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:48 PM<br>> > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT]
/schools<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > > > I've said this all my adult life:
Private schools are the bane of<br>> this<br>> > > > country.<br>> > >
Too broad a statement, David.<br>> > > Speaking from my experience of 12
years of parochial school, which is<br>> > > private school, but not
quite the private school that Bill Gate's kids<br>> > would<br>> > >
attend.......<br>> > > I was able to receive a good education with, I
believe, less of the<br>> > > interuptions you mentioned in another
post. Baby-sitting didn't<br>happen<br>> in<br>> > > my classes. Can't
behave ? Out you go. My parents paid tuition for<br>3<br>> of<br>> > >
us and we weren't well off by any standards. All the parents that
pay<br>> > > tuition for parochial schools get no tax break from the
govt, and yet<br>> they<br>> > > do not make use of funds that the govt
has assigned for public<br>schools.<br>> > For<br>> > > 12 yrs x 3, my
folks paid taxes which went to public schools AND they<br>> paid<br>> >
> tuition. This allows the public schools extra funds. It's not our<br>>
fault<br>> > > they didn't use it wisely. If I had had kids, they too
would have<br>> > attended<br>> > > parochial school.<br>> > ><br>> > >
Kitty<br>> > ><br>> > > ----- Original Message ----- <br>> > > From:
"David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net><br>> > > To:
<gardenchat@hort.net><br>> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:11 PM<br>>
> > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > > Melody
(I'm sorry folks I realize this is a garden group and not a<br>> >
soapbox<br>> > > > for political agendas) I think the problem is in the
reality. The<br>> > reality<br>> > > > is that there are far too many
students in California who don't care<br>> and<br>> > > > whose parents
don't care whether they get an education or not. Fact<br>> is<br>> > >
that<br>> >

> > there is only so much money and resources and the way we
casually<br>> spend<br>> > > > money in this country insures a bleak
future for education.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > I've said this all my adult
life: Private schools are the bane of<br>> this<br>> > > > country. They
guarantee unequal education. Send Bill Gate's and<br>> Warren<br>> > > >
Buffet's kids to public schools and we wouldn't be having this<br>> >
discussion<br>> > > > right now. But as long as we don't we lose untold
thousands of<br>bright<br>> > > kids<br>> > > > who don't have the
resources to a good education and hence fall<br>> through<br>> > >
the<br>> > > > cracks.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > David Franzman<br>> > > > A
Touch of the Tropics<br>> > > > www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>> > > >
----- Original Message ----- <br>> > > > From: "Melody"
<mhobertm@excite.com><br>> > > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net><br>> > > >
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:03 AM<br>> > > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT]
New oleander/schools<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > > DF: This is the
result of a poorly thought out and woefully<br>> > underfunded<br>> > >
> > "No Child Left Behind Act", brought to you courtesy of our
current<br>> > > > > government officials. In order to continue
qualifying for federal<br>> > > > > financial aid for school districts,
each school must meet grade<br>> level<br>> > > > > requirements, you
know. Well, if a certain percentage of the<br>> children<br>> > > > >
can't make it and that prevents the school from getting funding,<br>>
then<br>> > > > > what is the logical step? To reduce the level of
difficulty of<br>what<br>> is<br>> > > > > being taught to the lowest
common denominator, i.e. dumbing down.<br>In<br>> > > > > it's purest
form, NCLB would be a godsend to the children of<br>> > > > >
America...teaching them to reach for the highest standards.
In<br>it's<br>> > > > > current bastardized version, it's a nightmare!
Political action,<br>> > > > > though...the strength of character to
stand up for what you<br>believe<br>> > > > > in...is the

 o
nly thing that will change this unfortunate course of<br>> > > > >
action our elected officials have embarked upon. Write or
call<br>your<br>> > > > > local federal and state legislators and demand
that they fully<br>fund<br>> > the<br>> > > > > NCLB act. Okay...off the
soapbox now...sorry, folks!<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > ><br>> > > > ><br>>
> > > > Melody, IA (Z 5/4)<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > "The most beautiful
thing we can experience is the mysterious."<br>> > > > > --Albert
Einstein<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > --- On Mon 05/17, David Franzman <
dfranzma@pacbell.net > wrote:<br>> > > > > From: David Franzman [mailto:
dfranzma@pacbell.net]<br>> > > > > To: gardenchat@hort.net<br>> > > > >
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 20:41:32 -0700<br>> > > > > Subject: Re: Re:
[CHAT] New oleander/schools<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > No, no, no Pam!
It's "Can I supersize that for you!" Man, could I<br>> tell<br>> > > > >
you<br>stories about my kids school. They watch more movies
than<br>the<br>> > > > > attendants at<br>the Sundance Movie Festival.
What's worse is that<br>> not<br>> > > > > only are most of
the<br>movies out of context with the class but<br>> many<br>> > of<br>>
> > > > them are...ugh...cartoons.<br>Now are we talking about
an<br>elementary<br>> > > > > school? Nope! High school. The<br>coup d'
grace was when my<br>daughter<br>> > > > > came home from school and she
told me<br>that they watched, in<br>> Spanish<br>> > > > > class, a
Flintstones cartoon movie...IN<br>ENGLISH! Oh, it did<br>have<br>> > > >
> Spanish subtitles. The schools are dumbing down<br>our kids and I<br>>
find<br>> > > > > it repugnant.<br><br>David Franzman<br>A Touch of
the<br>> > > > > Tropics<br>www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>-----
Original<br>> Message -----<br>> > > > > <br>From:
<gardenqueen@academicplanet.com><br>To:<br>> > > > >
<gardenchat@hort.net><br>Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 7:35<br>> >
PM<br>Subject:<br>> > > > > Re: Re: [CHAT] New
oleander/schools<br><br><br>> Agreed. I've seen<br>> > what<br>> > > > >
the local public schools produc

e here - you want<br>fries w/ that?<br>> > > > > Appalling.<br>><br>>
Pam Evans<br>> Kemp, TX<br>> zone<br>8A<br>> -----<br>> > > > > Original
Message -----<br>> From: james singer<br>> Sent:<br>5/17/2004<br>> > > >
> 4:24:57 PM<br>> To: gardenchat@hort.net<br>> Subject: Re:
[CHAT]<br>New<br>> > > > > oleander<br>><br>> > Yes, they are. And I
think the Montessori<br>> > > > > environment is perfect to<br>> > bring
out their curiosity. I<br>think<br>> > the<br>> > > > > best part--that
older children<br>> > have responsibilities in the<br>> > > > >
education of younger children--encourages<br>> > a kind of<br>> >
intellectual<br>> > > > > development that simply does not occur in
other<br>> > settings.<br>And<br>> I<br>> > > > > think that is why a
high percentage of Montessori<br>> > graduates<br>> > > > > succeed at
university.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > On Monday, May 17,<br>2004,<br>> >
at<br>> > > > > 09:04 AM, Zemuly@aol.com wrote:<br>> ><br>> > > In a
message dated<br>> > > > > 5/17/2004 4:08:07 AM Central Standard
Time,<br>> > ><br>jsinger@igc.org<br>> > > > > writes:<br>> > > Ms.
Fatma teaches the primary grades in a<br>> Montessori<br>> > > > >
school.<br>> > > I volunteer with that same age group at our local<br>>
> > > > Montessori school.<br>> > > That<br>> > > age is the gre<br>> >
> > ><br>> > > > > atest. They are adorable and so eager to learn.<br>>
> > zem<br>><br>><br>> > > > > ><br>> > ><br>> > > ><br>> > ><br>>
><br>><br>>
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10<br>> > 27.0 N, 82.4 W<br>> ><br>><br>><br>> > > ><br>> > ><br>>
><br>><br>>
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