Re: Re: /schools

Oh, man, I am with you 100% on the health care issue.
Just yesterday I was helping carry potted plants for our MG plant sale.
Lana handed me 2 for each hand and I told her my left can only handle one
since I hurt my shoulder last march.  She asked what the doctor said about
how long til it healed.  I explained there is no doctor since I have no
insurance.

Kitty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools


> It's funny Kitty, because like Eve I'm pretty middle of the road except
with
> two things education and health care.  On the other side though I'm a
> personal responsibility type of guy.  I hate the victimization thing that
we
> have going on in this country.  Typically that's an excuse which I can't
> stand.  And if they pass anymore laws trying to protect me from myself I
may
> just commit hari kari...or is that against the law?
>
> With education you simply can't have a democracy without a well educated
> populace.  And of course diverse sources of news but that's a different
> topic.  I assure you Kitty that if J. Paul Getty's kids went to public
> schools...they would find the money.
>
> With health care I've spent millions of dollars on research and I'm fairly
> certain that a germ doesn't stop at gated communities.  So, we had better
> find a way to pay for that also or not only will we have a bunch of people
> who can't add past 2 + 2 but they'll be disease carriers as well.
>
> David Franzman
> A Touch of the Tropics
> www.atouchofthetropics.net
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net>
> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:54 AM
> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
>
>
> > I understand your theory, David.  And, I'm sorry if my reply sounded
> > 'heated'.  Not so, just speaking up.
> >
> > However, if your theory were to be put into practice - which it can't
be -
> > there'd be less money to go around. I have no idea how many millions of
> kids
> > are in private schools, but if they were all sent to public schools, the
> > system would collapse.  Public schools are using the funds from taxes
that
> > pay for private kids on the public kids and still can't make ends meet.
> >
> > Also, one of the great privleges we as Americans enjoy is choice.  I
don't
> > approve of home-schooling, but I do believe those parents have the right
> to
> > choose that route.  I also believe that if you want special schooling
for
> > your kids - like the nutcases who enroll their kids in nursery school
> while
> > they are still in the womb - you can make that choice.  To say NO to
these
> > choices and to private school simply because you think it could improve
> > public schools, goes against the grain of our society.  It's socialistic
> or
> > maybe even communistic - both systems with good ideals and properties -
> that
> > will not necessarily fix the public school problem.  Public schools must
> fix
> > themselves, thus making themselves attractive, by choice, to consumers.
> >
> > Also - the best and the brightest are not necessarily in private
schools.
> W
> > went to private schools.
> >
> > Kitty
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
> > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:14 AM
> > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> >
> >
> > > "Too broad a statement, David."
> > >
> > > Kitty, I don't want to get into a heated debate over what is simply my
> > > belief however I don't understand why your personal experience with
> > > parochial schools makes my statement too broad.  My point was that if
we
> > > were all sent to the same institutions of learning instead of separate
> > > whether for personal reasons or wealth the entire society would have
> more
> > > concern for the welfare of public education which as you must admit
> turns
> > > out far more children than private.  Therefore our schools would be
> better
> > > because there would be far more involvement by those who wield more
> power
> > > within our society.
> > >
> > > Nobody would argue that private institutions are bad places for
> learning.
> > > Far from it.  In fact, what they do is funnel the best and the
brightest
> > out
> > > of the public school system and even worse take the most powerful
people
> > in
> > > the country and make public education not their problem.
> > >
> > >
> > > David Franzman
> > > A Touch of the Tropics
> > > www.atouchofthetropics.net
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net>
> > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:48 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> > >
> > >
> > > > > I've said this all my adult life:  Private schools are the bane of
> > this
> > > > > country.
> > > > Too broad a statement, David.
> > > > Speaking from my experience of 12 years of parochial school, which
is
> > > > private school, but not quite the private school that Bill Gate's
kids
> > > would
> > > > attend.......
> > > > I was able to receive a good education with, I believe, less of the
> > > > interuptions you mentioned in another post.  Baby-sitting didn't
> happen
> > in
> > > > my classes.  Can't behave ?  Out you go.  My parents paid tuition
for
> 3
> > of
> > > > us and we weren't well off by any standards.  All the parents that
pay
> > > > tuition for parochial schools get no tax break from the govt, and
yet
> > they
> > > > do not make use of funds that the govt has assigned for public
> schools.
> > > For
> > > > 12 yrs x 3, my folks paid taxes which went to public schools AND
they
> > paid
> > > > tuition.  This allows the public schools extra funds.  It's not our
> > fault
> > > > they didn't use it wisely.  If I had had kids, they too would have
> > > attended
> > > > parochial school.
> > > >
> > > > Kitty
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
> > > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:11 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Melody (I'm sorry folks I realize this is a garden group and not a
> > > soapbox
> > > > > for political agendas) I think the problem is in the reality.  The
> > > reality
> > > > > is that there are far too many students in California who don't
care
> > and
> > > > > whose parents don't care whether they get an education or not.
Fact
> > is
> > > > that
> > > > > there is only so much money and resources and the way we casually
> > spend
> > > > > money in this country insures a bleak future for education.
> > > > >
> > > > > I've said this all my adult life:  Private schools are the bane of
> > this
> > > > > country.  They guarantee unequal education.  Send Bill Gate's and
> > Warren
> > > > > Buffet's kids to public schools and we wouldn't be having this
> > > discussion
> > > > > right now.  But as long as we don't we lose untold thousands of
> bright
> > > > kids
> > > > > who don't have the resources to a good education and hence fall
> > through
> > > > the
> > > > > cracks.
> > > > >
> > > > > David Franzman
> > > > > A Touch of the Tropics
> > > > > www.atouchofthetropics.net
> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > > From: "Melody" <mhobertm@excite.com>
> > > > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:03 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > DF: This is the result of a poorly thought out and woefully
> > > underfunded
> > > > > > "No Child Left Behind Act", brought to you courtesy of our
current
> > > > > > government officials. In order to continue qualifying for
federal
> > > > > > financial aid for school districts, each school must meet grade
> > level
> > > > > > requirements, you know. Well, if a certain percentage of the
> > children
> > > > > > can't make it and that prevents the school from getting funding,
> > then
> > > > > > what is the logical step? To reduce the level of difficulty of
> what
> > is
> > > > > > being taught to the lowest common denominator, i.e. dumbing
down.
> In
> > > > > > it's purest form, NCLB would be a godsend to the children of
> > > > > > America...teaching them to reach for the highest standards. In
> it's
> > > > > > current bastardized version, it's a nightmare! Political action,
> > > > > > though...the strength of character to stand up for what you
> believe
> > > > > > in...is the only thing that will change this unfortunate course
of
> > > > > > action our elected officials have embarked upon. Write or call
> your
> > > > > > local federal and state legislators and demand that they fully
> fund
> > > the
> > > > > > NCLB act. Okay...off the soapbox now...sorry, folks!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Melody, IA (Z 5/4)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious."
> > > > > > --Albert Einstein
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  --- On Mon 05/17, David Franzman < dfranzma@pacbell.net >
wrote:
> > > > > > From: David Franzman [mailto: dfranzma@pacbell.net]
> > > > > > To: gardenchat@hort.net
> > > > > > Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 20:41:32 -0700
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No, no, no Pam! It's "Can I supersize that for you!" Man, could
I
> > tell
> > > > > > you<br>stories about my kids school. They watch more movies than
> the
> > > > > > attendants at<br>the Sundance Movie Festival. What's worse is
that
> > not
> > > > > > only are most of the<br>movies out of context with the class but
> > many
> > > of
> > > > > > them are...ugh...cartoons.<br>Now are we talking about an
> elementary
> > > > > > school? Nope! High school. The<br>coup d' grace was when my
> daughter
> > > > > > came home from school and she told me<br>that they watched, in
> > Spanish
> > > > > > class, a Flintstones cartoon movie...IN<br>ENGLISH! Oh, it did
> have
> > > > > > Spanish subtitles. The schools are dumbing down<br>our kids and
I
> > find
> > > > > > it repugnant.<br><br>David Franzman<br>A Touch of the
> > > > > > Tropics<br>www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>----- Original
> > Message -----
> > > > > > <br>From: <gardenqueen@academicplanet.com><br>To:
> > > > > > <gardenchat@hort.net><br>Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 7:35
> > > PM<br>Subject:
> > > > > > Re: Re: [CHAT] New oleander/schools<br><br><br>> Agreed. I've
seen
> > > what
> > > > > > the local public schools produce here - you want<br>fries w/
that?
> > > > > > Appalling.<br>><br>> Pam Evans<br>> Kemp, TX<br>> zone
> 8A<br>> -----
> > > > > > Original Message -----<br>> From: james singer<br>> Sent:
> 5/17/2004
> > > > > > 4:24:57 PM<br>> To: gardenchat@hort.net<br>> Subject: Re: [CHAT]
> New
> > > > > > oleander<br>><br>> > Yes, they are. And I think the Montessori
> > > > > > environment is perfect to<br>> > bring out their curiosity. I
> think
> > > the
> > > > > > best part--that older children<br>> > have responsibilities in
the
> > > > > > education of younger children--encourages<br>> > a kind of
> > > intellectual
> > > > > > development that simply does not occur in other<br>> > settings.
> And
> > I
> > > > > > think that is why a high percentage of Montessori<br>> >
graduates
> > > > > > succeed at university.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > On Monday, May 17,
> 2004,
> > > at
> > > > > > 09:04 AM, Zemuly@aol.com wrote:<br>> ><br>> > > In a message
dated
> > > > > > 5/17/2004 4:08:07 AM Central Standard Time,<br>> > >
> jsinger@igc.org
> > > > > > writes:<br>> > > Ms. Fatma teaches the primary grades in a
> > Montessori
> > > > > > school.<br>> > > I volunteer with that same age group at our
local
> > > > > > Montessori school.<br>> > > That<br>> > > age is the gre
> > > > > >
> > > > > > atest. They are adorable and so eager to learn.<br>> > >
zem<br>>
> >
> > > > > > ><br>> > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>>
> > > > > > > > Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!<br>> > >
> > > > > > http://www.hort.net/funds/<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > Island
> Jim<br>>
> > >
> > > > > > Southwest Florida<br>> > Zone 10<br>> > 27.0 N, 82.4 W<br>>
><br>>
> >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>>
> > > > > > > Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!<br>> >
> > > > > > http://www.hort.net/funds/<br>><br>>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>>
> > > > > > Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!<br>>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.hort.net/funds/<br><br>---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Support
> > > > > > hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!<br>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >     http://www.hort.net/funds/<br><br>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> > > > > > The most personalized portal on the Web!
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!
> > > > > > http://www.hort.net/funds/
> > > > >
> > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!
> > > > > http://www.hort.net/funds/
> > > >
> > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!
> > > > http://www.hort.net/funds/
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!
> > > http://www.hort.net/funds/
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!
> > http://www.hort.net/funds/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!
> http://www.hort.net/funds/

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Support hort.net -- join the hort.net fund drive!
http://www.hort.net/funds/
Other Mailing lists | Author Index | Date Index | Subject Index | Thread Index