Re: Re: /schools

He was also a candlestick maker in another life.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools


> Boy Melody, you should ask Kitty this question but, certified chef,
> manufacturers rep, degree in American History minored in political
science.
> Can you tell???
>
> David Franzman
> A Touch of the Tropics
> www.atouchofthetropics.net
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Melody" <mhobertm@excite.com>
> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 10:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
>
>
> > DF: Just out of curiosity...what did you do for a living before the
hibs.
> consumed you?
> >
> >
> > Melody, IA (Z 5/4)
> >
> > "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious."
> > --Albert Einstein
> >
> >  --- On Thu 05/20, David Franzman < dfranzma@pacbell.net > wrote:
> > From: David Franzman [mailto: dfranzma@pacbell.net]
> > To: gardenchat@hort.net
> > Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 22:16:47 -0700
> > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools
> >
> > It's funny Kitty, because like Eve I'm pretty middle of the road except
> > with<br>two things education and health care. On the other side though
> > I'm a<br>personal responsibility type of guy. I hate the victimization
> > thing that we<br>have going on in this country. Typically that's an
> > excuse which I can't<br>stand. And if they pass anymore laws trying to
> > protect me from myself I may<br>just commit hari kari...or is that
> > against the law?<br><br>With education you simply can't have a democracy
> > without a well educated<br>populace. And of course diverse sources of
> > news but that's a different<br>topic. I assure you Kitty that if J. Paul
> > Getty's kids went to public<br>schools...they would find the
> > money.<br><br>With health care I've spent millions of dollars on
> > research and I'm fairly<br>certain that a germ doesn't stop at gated
> > communities. So, we had better<br>find a way to pay for that also or not
> > only will we have a bunch of people<br>who can't add past 2 + 2 but
> > they'll be disease carriers as well.<br><br>David Franzman<br>A Touch of
> > the Tropics<br>www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>----- Original Message
> > ----- <br>From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net><br>To:
> > <gardenchat@hort.net><br>Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 7:54
> > AM<br>Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools<br><br><br>> I understand your
> > theory, David. And, I'm sorry if my reply sounded<br>> 'heated'. Not so,
> > just speaking up.<br>><br>> However, if your theory were to be put into
> > practice - which it can't be -<br>> there'd be less money to go around.
> > I have no idea how many millions of<br>kids<br>> are in private schools,
> > but if they were all sent to public schools, the<br>> system would
> > collapse. Public schools are using the funds from taxes that<br>> pay
> > for private kids on the public kids and still can't make ends
> > meet.<br>><br>> Also, one of the great privleges we as Americans enjoy
> > is choice. I don't<br>> approve of home-schooling, but I do believe
> > those parents have the right<br>to<br>> choose that route. I also
> > believe that if you want special schooling for<
> >
> > br>> your kids - like the nutcases who enroll their kids in nursery
> > school<br>while<br>> they are still in the womb - you can make that
> > choice. To say NO to these<br>> choices and to private school simply
> > because you think it could improve<br>> public schools, goes against the
> > grain of our society. It's socialistic<br>or<br>> maybe even communistic
> > - both systems with good ideals and properties -<br>that<br>> will not
> > necessarily fix the public school problem. Public schools
> > must<br>fix<br>> themselves, thus making themselves attractive, by
> > choice, to consumers.<br>><br>> Also - the best and the brightest are
> > not necessarily in private schools.<br>W<br>> went to private
> > schools.<br>><br>> Kitty<br>><br>> ----- Original Message ----- <br>>
> > From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net><br>> To:
> > <gardenchat@hort.net><br>> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:14 AM<br>>
> > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools<br>><br>><br>> > "Too broad a
> > statement, David."<br>> ><br>> > Kitty, I don't want to get into a
> > heated debate over what is simply my<br>> > belief however I don't
> > understand why your personal experience with<br>> > parochial schools
> > makes my statement too broad. My point was that if we<br>> > were all
> > sent to the same institutions of learning instead of separate<br>> >
> > whether for personal reasons or wealth the entire society would
> > have<br>more<br>> > concern for the welfare of public education which as
> > you must admit<br>turns<br>> > out far more children than private.
> > Therefore our schools would be<br>better<br>> > because there would be
> > far more involvement by those who wield more<br>power<br>> > within our
> > society.<br>> ><br>> > Nobody would argue that private institutions are
> > bad places for<br>learning.<br>> > Far from it. In fact, what they do is
> > funnel the best and the brightest<br>> out<br>> > of the public school
> > system and even worse take the most powerful people<br>> in<br>> > the
> > country and make public education not their problem.<br>> ><br>> ><br>>
> > > David Franzman<br>> > A Touch of the Tropics<br>> > w
> >
> > ww
> > .atouchofthetropics.net<br>> > ----- Original Message ----- <br>> >
> > From: "Kitty" <kmrsy@comcast.net><br>> > To: <gardenchat@hort.net><br>>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:48 PM<br>> > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT]
> > /schools<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > > > I've said this all my adult life:
> > Private schools are the bane of<br>> this<br>> > > > country.<br>> > >
> > Too broad a statement, David.<br>> > > Speaking from my experience of 12
> > years of parochial school, which is<br>> > > private school, but not
> > quite the private school that Bill Gate's kids<br>> > would<br>> > >
> > attend.......<br>> > > I was able to receive a good education with, I
> > believe, less of the<br>> > > interuptions you mentioned in another
> > post. Baby-sitting didn't<br>happen<br>> in<br>> > > my classes. Can't
> > behave ? Out you go. My parents paid tuition for<br>3<br>> of<br>> > >
> > us and we weren't well off by any standards. All the parents that
> > pay<br>> > > tuition for parochial schools get no tax break from the
> > govt, and yet<br>> they<br>> > > do not make use of funds that the govt
> > has assigned for public<br>schools.<br>> > For<br>> > > 12 yrs x 3, my
> > folks paid taxes which went to public schools AND they<br>> paid<br>> >
> > > tuition. This allows the public schools extra funds. It's not our<br>>
> > fault<br>> > > they didn't use it wisely. If I had had kids, they too
> > would have<br>> > attended<br>> > > parochial school.<br>> > ><br>> > >
> > Kitty<br>> > ><br>> > > ----- Original Message ----- <br>> > > From:
> > "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net><br>> > > To:
> > <gardenchat@hort.net><br>> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 7:11 PM<br>>
> > > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT] /schools<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > > Melody
> > (I'm sorry folks I realize this is a garden group and not a<br>> >
> > soapbox<br>> > > > for political agendas) I think the problem is in the
> > reality. The<br>> > reality<br>> > > > is that there are far too many
> > students in California who don't care<br>> and<br>> > > > whose parents
> > don't care whether they get an education or not. Fact<br>> is<br>> > >
> > that<br>> >
> >
> > > > there is only so much money and resources and the way we
> > casually<br>> spend<br>> > > > money in this country insures a bleak
> > future for education.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > I've said this all my adult
> > life: Private schools are the bane of<br>> this<br>> > > > country. They
> > guarantee unequal education. Send Bill Gate's and<br>> Warren<br>> > > >
> > Buffet's kids to public schools and we wouldn't be having this<br>> >
> > discussion<br>> > > > right now. But as long as we don't we lose untold
> > thousands of<br>bright<br>> > > kids<br>> > > > who don't have the
> > resources to a good education and hence fall<br>> through<br>> > >
> > the<br>> > > > cracks.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > David Franzman<br>> > > > A
> > Touch of the Tropics<br>> > > > www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>> > > >
> > ----- Original Message ----- <br>> > > > From: "Melody"
> > <mhobertm@excite.com><br>> > > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net><br>> > > >
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:03 AM<br>> > > > Subject: Re: Re: [CHAT]
> > New oleander/schools<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > > DF: This is the
> > result of a poorly thought out and woefully<br>> > underfunded<br>> > >
> > > > "No Child Left Behind Act", brought to you courtesy of our
> > current<br>> > > > > government officials. In order to continue
> > qualifying for federal<br>> > > > > financial aid for school districts,
> > each school must meet grade<br>> level<br>> > > > > requirements, you
> > know. Well, if a certain percentage of the<br>> children<br>> > > > >
> > can't make it and that prevents the school from getting funding,<br>>
> > then<br>> > > > > what is the logical step? To reduce the level of
> > difficulty of<br>what<br>> is<br>> > > > > being taught to the lowest
> > common denominator, i.e. dumbing down.<br>In<br>> > > > > it's purest
> > form, NCLB would be a godsend to the children of<br>> > > > >
> > America...teaching them to reach for the highest standards.
> > In<br>it's<br>> > > > > current bastardized version, it's a nightmare!
> > Political action,<br>> > > > > though...the strength of character to
> > stand up for what you<br>believe<br>> > > > > in...is the
> >
> >  o
> > nly thing that will change this unfortunate course of<br>> > > > >
> > action our elected officials have embarked upon. Write or
> > call<br>your<br>> > > > > local federal and state legislators and demand
> > that they fully<br>fund<br>> > the<br>> > > > > NCLB act. Okay...off the
> > soapbox now...sorry, folks!<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > ><br>> > > > ><br>>
> > > > > > Melody, IA (Z 5/4)<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > "The most beautiful
> > thing we can experience is the mysterious."<br>> > > > > --Albert
> > Einstein<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > --- On Mon 05/17, David Franzman <
> > dfranzma@pacbell.net > wrote:<br>> > > > > From: David Franzman [mailto:
> > dfranzma@pacbell.net]<br>> > > > > To: gardenchat@hort.net<br>> > > > >
> > Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 20:41:32 -0700<br>> > > > > Subject: Re: Re:
> > [CHAT] New oleander/schools<br>> > > > ><br>> > > > > No, no, no Pam!
> > It's "Can I supersize that for you!" Man, could I<br>> tell<br>> > > > >
> > you<br>stories about my kids school. They watch more movies
> > than<br>the<br>> > > > > attendants at<br>the Sundance Movie Festival.
> > What's worse is that<br>> not<br>> > > > > only are most of
> > the<br>movies out of context with the class but<br>> many<br>> > of<br>>
> > > > > > them are...ugh...cartoons.<br>Now are we talking about
> > an<br>elementary<br>> > > > > school? Nope! High school. The<br>coup d'
> > grace was when my<br>daughter<br>> > > > > came home from school and she
> > told me<br>that they watched, in<br>> Spanish<br>> > > > > class, a
> > Flintstones cartoon movie...IN<br>ENGLISH! Oh, it did<br>have<br>> > > >
> > > Spanish subtitles. The schools are dumbing down<br>our kids and I<br>>
> > find<br>> > > > > it repugnant.<br><br>David Franzman<br>A Touch of
> > the<br>> > > > > Tropics<br>www.atouchofthetropics.net<br>-----
> > Original<br>> Message -----<br>> > > > > <br>From:
> > <gardenqueen@academicplanet.com><br>To:<br>> > > > >
> > <gardenchat@hort.net><br>Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 7:35<br>> >
> > PM<br>Subject:<br>> > > > > Re: Re: [CHAT] New
> > oleander/schools<br><br><br>> Agreed. I've seen<br>> > what<br>> > > > >
> > the local public schools produc
> >
> > e here - you want<br>fries w/ that?<br>> > > > > Appalling.<br>><br>>
> > Pam Evans<br>> Kemp, TX<br>> zone<br>8A<br>> -----<br>> > > > > Original
> > Message -----<br>> From: james singer<br>> Sent:<br>5/17/2004<br>> > > >
> > > 4:24:57 PM<br>> To: gardenchat@hort.net<br>> Subject: Re:
> > [CHAT]<br>New<br>> > > > > oleander<br>><br>> > Yes, they are. And I
> > think the Montessori<br>> > > > > environment is perfect to<br>> > bring
> > out their curiosity. I<br>think<br>> > the<br>> > > > > best part--that
> > older children<br>> > have responsibilities in the<br>> > > > >
> > education of younger children--encourages<br>> > a kind of<br>> >
> > intellectual<br>> > > > > development that simply does not occur in
> > other<br>> > settings.<br>And<br>> I<br>> > > > > think that is why a
> > high percentage of Montessori<br>> > graduates<br>> > > > > succeed at
> > university.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > On Monday, May 17,<br>2004,<br>> >
> > at<br>> > > > > 09:04 AM, Zemuly@aol.com wrote:<br>> ><br>> > > In a
> > message dated<br>> > > > > 5/17/2004 4:08:07 AM Central Standard
> > Time,<br>> > ><br>jsinger@igc.org<br>> > > > > writes:<br>> > > Ms.
> > Fatma teaches the primary grades in a<br>> Montessori<br>> > > > >
> > school.<br>> > > I volunteer with that same age group at our local<br>>
> > > > > > Montessori school.<br>> > > That<br>> > > age is the gre<br>> >
> > > > ><br>> > > > > atest. They are adorable and so eager to learn.<br>>
> > > > zem<br>><br>><br>> > > > > ><br>> > ><br>> > > ><br>> > ><br>>
> > ><br>><br>>
>
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