Re: news of the day

People buy what is available. If auto mfgs were required to build more
fuel efficient/alternative fuel cars, that's what people would buy. And,
as Marge said, when we stop buying things, it affects someone's income.
I know this doesn't apply to all 'things', but it's a start.


Regardless, I don't know how you'd go about changing peoples proclivity
for shopping. Tighter restrictions perhaps on credit cards and
bankruptcy laws.

> But most of these products require an oil-based economy...and when we buy
> lots of things...we continue to fuel it.  If a significant part of the
> society stopped fueling it, those at the top would have to change their
> strategy.
> 
> Bonnie Zone 6+ ETN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > [Original Message]
> > From: <kmrsy@comcast.net>
> > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > Date: 11/10/2003 6:09:32 AM
> > Subject: Re: [CHAT] news of the day
> >
> > Marge, 
> > I agree with most of what you said regarding greed, though I see the
> value of a well-controlled credit card.
> >
> > I don't so much have problems with the kind of greed that wants too many
> > clothes or tv sets, but with greed by those who run the show. They
> > inisist on an oil based economy no matter who or what it hurts because
> > they are heavily invested in it. Alternatives already exist or can be
> > developed, but they refuse to go that route and they're big enough to
> > get their way.
> >
> >
> > Kitty
> > > Well, Pam, I think greed has been with the human race since we
> > > started walking upright.  Just seems there are fewer societal
> > > restraints on it now than there used to be - or maybe just more
> > > opportunities for people to indulge.  Being greedy used to be frowned
> > > upon; now it seems to be the norm.
> > > 
> > > I also think that the relative wealth and size of our "middle class"
> > > encourages greed - as does our consumer oriented society.  Used to be
> > > - for the vast majority of people - that ' use it 'til it wears out,
> > > then do without' was how things worked.  
> > > 
> > > During the depression, my Mom had 1 dress she wore every day to high
> > > school - it had removable collar and cuffs - think she told me there
> > > were 2 sets - she washed them out every night and alternated them. 
> > > Before her time, few but the upper classes and  wealthy had more than
> > > one garment for every day wear and one for 'best'...the old "Sunday
> > > Best" (even when I was a child, we still had our "Sunday Best"
> > > outfit; worn only on Sunday or for very special occasions).  Today,
> > > people have closets bursting with clothes and keep on buying them
> > > although what they have is perfectly good.
> > > 
> > > Now, we have a throwaway society in this country; all closely tied to
> > > our entire economic operation - and that operation is now closely
> > > knit to the rest of the world economy; was just reading an article in
> > > the paper today about how almost every Christmas decoration or fake
> > > tree sold here in the US is made in China; so if we don't buy new
> > > Christmas goodies, it now adversely affects some poor Chinese person
> > > earning a big $100/month.  Sort of an unending circle.
> > > 
> > > When society operated on a cash basis, people could only get what
> > > they could actually afford to pay for up front; most did without. 
> > > Once we got a credit based society, everybody can get about anything
> > > if they have plastic and people do...so we're always in debt (at
> > > least a lot are) while accumulating lots of 'stuff' that we really
> > > don't actually need, but providing thousands of jobs in hundreds of
> > > related industries.  If everybody cut back to getting only what they
> > > needed; millions would be out of work all over the world...
> > > 
> > > The reverse side of this coin is that all the greedy consumerism
> > > provides better paying jobs and higher standards of living to more
> > > people than ever before in the history of mankind.
> > > 
> > > So, how do you strike a happy medium....keeping up people's standard
> > > of living but eliminating the greed as SOP factor?  Can it be done? 
> > > I would hope that we - as a society - can at least put some curbs on
> > > the current trends.  The scandals about salaries for the big
> > > corporation CEO's is a small start - if it doesn't just fizzle out.  
> > > 
> > > Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland
> > > mtalt@hort.net
> > > Editor:  Gardening in Shade
> > > -----------------------------------------------
> > > Current Article: Variegation on the Green Theme - Part One
> > > http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening
> > > ------------------------------------------------
> > > Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date
> > > http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html
> > > ------------------------------------------------
> > > All Suite101.com garden topics :
> > > http://www.suite101.com/topics.cfm/635
> > > 
> > > ----------
> > > > From: Pamela J. Evans <gardenqueen@gbronline.com>
> > > > 
> > > > Bonnie & Marge, I've been turning that soapbox over for years.
> > > Don't
> > > > understand greed, never have, but it is evil and is undermining
> > > every
> > > > society it touches. Priorities these days are severely messed up.
> > > The
> > > > sooner ALL get hip to that, the better off we'll be. But try to
> > > preach
> > > > that sermon and people look at you like you have two heads or
> > > sprouted
> > > > horns or something. My cousin and her husband just returned from
> > > Russia
> > > > where they were picking up their newly adopted kids and she told me
> > > most
> > > > Americans would be appalled at the conditions these people live in.
> > > Even
> > > > as simply as I live, my little cottage/shack would look like a
> > > palace
> > > > over there. Wish more people could see that for themselves. Might
> > > wake
> > > > them up a bit.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I can dream, can't I?
> > > > 
> > > > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > > > From: "Bonnie Holmes" <holmesbm@usit.net>
> > > > Reply-To: gardenchat@hort.net
> > > > Date:  Sat, 8 Nov 2003 07:31:44 -0800
> > > > 
> > > > >In my mind I can point to the time "greed" became the mantra for
> > > corporate
> > > > >America.  I was working in D.C. in a large law firm in the late
> > > 1970's. 
> > > > >Ringer's book, "Looking Out For Number One" was on the best seller
> > > list and
> > > > >required reading for managers of many large firms.  It seems to me
> > > that
> > > > >from that point forward the emphasis was on self...what one could
> > > acquire,
> > > > >how much one could spend on cars, houses, etc., buying the best
> > > and
> > > > >bragging on it.  Problems of those less fortunate didn't concern
> > > those on
> > > > >this track unless they were directly involved.  The thought of
> > > giving back
> > > > >to the community whose structure and principles allowed great
> > > success was
> > > > >completely lost. 
> > > > >
> > > > >Enough...my soapbox just turned over. 
> > > > >
> > > > >Bonnie Zone 6+ ETN
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> [Original Message]
> > > > >> From: Marge Talt <mtalt@hort.net>
> > > > >> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > > > >> Date: 11/07/2003 9:07:17 PM
> > > > >> Subject: Re: [CHAT] news of the day
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > From: "Bonnie & Bill Morgan" <wmorgan972@ameritech.net>
> > > > >> > > May we someday wake up and go for more renewable, cleaner,
> > > energy
> > > > >> sources!
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I'll second that!  However, I very much fear that money is what
> > > > >> drives things the world around and as long as those with vested
> > > > >> interests in keeping the status quo are the ones donating
> > > mammoth
> > > > >> sums to election campaigns, I can guarantee that renewable
> > > energy is
> > > > >> going to stay firmly in the rumble seat.  When you stop and
> > > think
> > > > >> about the vast network of businesses that depend on oil in some
> > > form
> > > > >> for their existence, you can see that the vested interests are
> > > large.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Until some disaster occurs, this nation seems set on reaction
> > > instead
> > > > >> of proaction, and then seems to waste time, money and energy in
> > > > >> trying to point to fix responsibility on some entity - witness
> > > the
> > > > >> eastcoast black out this year -  (I guess so people can sue
> > > them)
> > > > >> instead of saying "Hello..it's time to do something about
> > > > >> this"...just too much power in the hands of a few extremely
> > > > >> short-sighted and profit-motivated persons.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Now, I don't have anything against making a nice profit in
> > > business
> > > > >> (only wish we could manage that), but there is profit and there
> > > is
> > > > >> greed; today, greed is winning hands down.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland
> > > > >> mtalt@hort.net
> > > > >> Editor:  Gardening in Shade
> > > > >> -----------------------------------------------
> > > > >> Current Article: Variegation on the Green Theme - Part One
> > > > >> http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening
> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date
> > > > >> http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html
> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> All Suite101.com garden topics :
> > > > >> http://www.suite101.com/topics.cfm/635
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
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> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > Pam Evans
> > > > Kemp TX/zone 8A
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > 
> > > >
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