Re: news of the day

I totally agree about the Humvee, Jesse.  I had to drive one of those
godforsaken pieces of crap for years, and to this day wouldn't walk across
the street to look at/drive/sit in one.  Give me a nice M-1 tank any day.
Rich in Z-5
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Bell" <jesserenebell@hotmail.com>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [CHAT] news of the day


> Man...I've been reading these e-mails....and ya'll just don't know.  Pam
> does though.  I'm just about ready to sell everything I have and live in a
> shoebox somewhere.  People (my husband) create their own stress.  House
> payment too high?  Sell it.  Car payments getting you down?  Buy something
> more reasonable.  When my husband started oogling Humvee's I lost it and
put
> my foot down.  I said, "they are a gross display of American greed and
> one-upsmanship....look at me, look at me...my truck is bigger than your
> truck!"  He looked shocked that I would feel this way.  Does any person
need
> what was formerly an army vehicle to drive to work and back.  NO.  I told
> him he better not bring one of them home either.  I'm looking at a
> turbo-diesel Volkswagen that gets great gas mileage...and he's looking at
a
> Hummer.  PULeeeze.
>
>
>
> >From: kmrsy@comcast.net
> >Reply-To: gardenchat@hort.net
> >To: gardenchat@hort.net
> >Subject: Re: [CHAT] news of the day
> >Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:48:20 +0000
> >
> >People buy what is available. If auto mfgs were required to build more
> >fuel efficient/alternative fuel cars, that's what people would buy. And,
> >as Marge said, when we stop buying things, it affects someone's income.
> >I know this doesn't apply to all 'things', but it's a start.
> >
> >
> >Regardless, I don't know how you'd go about changing peoples proclivity
> >for shopping. Tighter restrictions perhaps on credit cards and
> >bankruptcy laws.
> >
> > > But most of these products require an oil-based economy...and when we
> >buy
> > > lots of things...we continue to fuel it.  If a significant part of the
> > > society stopped fueling it, those at the top would have to change
their
> > > strategy.
> > >
> > > Bonnie Zone 6+ ETN
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > [Original Message]
> > > > From: <kmrsy@comcast.net>
> > > > To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > > > Date: 11/10/2003 6:09:32 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [CHAT] news of the day
> > > >
> > > > Marge,
> > > > I agree with most of what you said regarding greed, though I see the
> > > value of a well-controlled credit card.
> > > >
> > > > I don't so much have problems with the kind of greed that wants too
> >many
> > > > clothes or tv sets, but with greed by those who run the show. They
> > > > inisist on an oil based economy no matter who or what it hurts
because
> > > > they are heavily invested in it. Alternatives already exist or can
be
> > > > developed, but they refuse to go that route and they're big enough
to
> > > > get their way.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kitty
> > > > > Well, Pam, I think greed has been with the human race since we
> > > > > started walking upright.  Just seems there are fewer societal
> > > > > restraints on it now than there used to be - or maybe just more
> > > > > opportunities for people to indulge.  Being greedy used to be
> >frowned
> > > > > upon; now it seems to be the norm.
> > > > >
> > > > > I also think that the relative wealth and size of our "middle
class"
> > > > > encourages greed - as does our consumer oriented society.  Used to
> >be
> > > > > - for the vast majority of people - that ' use it 'til it wears
out,
> > > > > then do without' was how things worked.
> > > > >
> > > > > During the depression, my Mom had 1 dress she wore every day to
high
> > > > > school - it had removable collar and cuffs - think she told me
there
> > > > > were 2 sets - she washed them out every night and alternated them.
> > > > > Before her time, few but the upper classes and  wealthy had more
> >than
> > > > > one garment for every day wear and one for 'best'...the old
"Sunday
> > > > > Best" (even when I was a child, we still had our "Sunday Best"
> > > > > outfit; worn only on Sunday or for very special occasions).
Today,
> > > > > people have closets bursting with clothes and keep on buying them
> > > > > although what they have is perfectly good.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now, we have a throwaway society in this country; all closely tied
> >to
> > > > > our entire economic operation - and that operation is now closely
> > > > > knit to the rest of the world economy; was just reading an article
> >in
> > > > > the paper today about how almost every Christmas decoration or
fake
> > > > > tree sold here in the US is made in China; so if we don't buy new
> > > > > Christmas goodies, it now adversely affects some poor Chinese
person
> > > > > earning a big $100/month.  Sort of an unending circle.
> > > > >
> > > > > When society operated on a cash basis, people could only get what
> > > > > they could actually afford to pay for up front; most did without.
> > > > > Once we got a credit based society, everybody can get about
anything
> > > > > if they have plastic and people do...so we're always in debt (at
> > > > > least a lot are) while accumulating lots of 'stuff' that we really
> > > > > don't actually need, but providing thousands of jobs in hundreds
of
> > > > > related industries.  If everybody cut back to getting only what
they
> > > > > needed; millions would be out of work all over the world...
> > > > >
> > > > > The reverse side of this coin is that all the greedy consumerism
> > > > > provides better paying jobs and higher standards of living to more
> > > > > people than ever before in the history of mankind.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, how do you strike a happy medium....keeping up people's
standard
> > > > > of living but eliminating the greed as SOP factor?  Can it be
done?
> > > > > I would hope that we - as a society - can at least put some curbs
on
> > > > > the current trends.  The scandals about salaries for the big
> > > > > corporation CEO's is a small start - if it doesn't just fizzle
out.
> > > > >
> > > > > Marge Talt, zone 7 Maryland
> > > > > mtalt@hort.net
> > > > > Editor:  Gardening in Shade
> > > > > -----------------------------------------------
> > > > > Current Article: Variegation on the Green Theme - Part One
> > > > > http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/shade_gardening
> > > > > ------------------------------------------------
> > > > > Complete Index of Articles by Category and Date
> > > > > http://mtalt.hort.net/article-index.html
> > > > > ------------------------------------------------
> > > > > All Suite101.com garden topics :
> > > > > http://www.suite101.com/topics.cfm/635
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------
> > > > > > From: Pamela J. Evans <gardenqueen@gbronline.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bonnie & Marge, I've been turning that soapbox over for years.
> > > > > Don't
> > > > > > understand greed, never have, but it is evil and is undermining
> > > > > every
> > > > > > society it touches. Priorities these days are severely messed
up.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > sooner ALL get hip to that, the better off we'll be. But try to
> > > > > preach
> > > > > > that sermon and people look at you like you have two heads or
> > > > > sprouted
> > > > > > horns or something. My cousin and her husband just returned from
> > > > > Russia
> > > > > > where they were picking up their newly adopted kids and she told
> >me
> > > > > most
> > > > > > Americans would be appalled at the conditions these people live
> >in.
> > > > > Even
> > > > > > as simply as I live, my little cottage/shack would look like a
> > > > > palace
> > > > > > over there. Wish more people could see that for themselves.
Might
> > > > > wake
> > > > > > them up a bit.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I can dream, can't I?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > > > > > From: "Bonnie Holmes" <holmesbm@usit.net>
> > > > > > Reply-To: gardenchat@hort.net
> > > > > > Date:  Sat, 8 Nov 2003 07:31:44 -0800
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >In my mind I can point to the time "greed" became the mantra
for
> > > > > corporate
> > > > > > >America.  I was working in D.C. in a large law firm in the late
> > > > > 1970's.
> > > > > > >Ringer's book, "Looking Out For Number One" was on the best
> >seller
> > > > > list and
> > > > > > >required reading for managers of many large firms.  It seems to
> >me
> > > > > that
> > > > > > >from that point forward the emphasis was on self...what one
could
> > > > > acquire,
> > > > > > >how much one could spend on cars, houses, etc., buying the best
> > > > > and
> > > > > > >bragging on it.  Problems of those less fortunate didn't
concern
> > > > > those on
> > > > > > >this track unless they were directly involved.  The thought of
> > > > > giving back
> > > > > > >to the community whose structure and principles allowed great
> > > > > success was
> > > > > > >completely lost.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Enough...my soapbox just turned over.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Bonnie Zone 6+ ETN
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
>
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