Re: insect control

You know, these days so many people use PETA like a dirty word.  Recently
someone **accused** me of being a PETA member, because I voiced a negative
opinion of her shooting her own dog with a pellet gun to get it to stop
barking.  Yes, PETA has some overzealous nutcases, but their basic tenet of
kindness toward animals is reasonable.

Kitty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daryl" <pulis@mindspring.com>
To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: [CHAT] insect control


> "I understand the city of San Diego destroyed many of their venerable
> Hibiscus trees because of a white fly problem.  "
>
> Yikes! That pains me. You're right, you have to know the (often rapid,
> especially in warm temperatures) life cycle of the critters to get a
handle
> on them.
>
> I haven't found rotation (of pesticide types, for those lurking) to be
> important when using water, hort oils or soaps. They act directly by
> drowning, drying or smothering. Back in the days when I used chemicals,
> there was a constant battle of resistance, and rotation was the only way
to
> avoid it.
>
> As for biologicals in the greenhouse, you have to be dedicated. You're
> right, you can't maintain beneficials without a food source. And they do
> have narrow temperature and humidity ranges. That's why the need for spot
> spraying with soaps and hort oils.
>
> Re PETA, I wouldn't be surprised, since some of them are against any form
of
> human interference and even want to outlaw pets. I know many folks in PETA
> that are more moderate though, and some might even applaud a method that
> involves killing target species rather than wholesale spraying of toxic
> chemicals.
>
> Remind me some time to tell the story of Snowball, a large "rescue"
chicken.
>
> Daryl
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
> To: <gardenchat@hort.net>
> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [CHAT] insect control
>
>
> > Well you're right Daryl if your neighbors are all spraying and you're
> > not you will have a more difficult time if not impossible to control in
> > a natural way.  I had a nasty white fly invasion in my backyard this
> > year.  I've never seen  them like this.  I figure it was because we had
> > such a mild winter that the population wasn't killed off by the cold.
> > In any case my wife urged me to spray the little blighters.  I resisted
> > mainly because I have a nice population of birds including several
> > hummers and I didn't want to poison them.  Not to mention the bees and
> > other beneficials.  I did cut way back the plant that seemed to be
> > housing them and that was the Melianthus.  Problem now seems to under
> > control and I never did spray.
> >
> > I understand the city of San Diego destroyed many of their venerable
> > Hibiscus trees because of a white fly problem.  I have come to
> > understand that most people do not know how to use insecticides in the
> > proper way.  I suspect that was the case of San Diego but I'm not sure.
> > Rotation is the most important aspect but if the population is bad you
> > have to spray every three days at least three times to kill off the
> > succeeding generations.  If you don't do that you won't take care of the
> > problem.
> >
> > Biologicals to me aren't very useful in the greenhouse if you are going
> > for near zero population.  First their temperature range makes them
> > fragile.  Second, you have to have a population of bad guys otherwise
> > your beneficials will starve to death.
> >
> > Interesting piece on the vacuum method.  I wonder if PETA will become
> > involved?  They certainly don't like it when they force feed geese to
> > make froi gras.
> >
> > DF
> >
> > Daryl wrote:
> >
> > >David,
> > >
> > >You've raised a good point. You'll notice I used the words "resistant"
> > >instead of "immune" and "usually" rather than "always".  ;-)
> > >
> > >There are times when you can't let Ma Nature do it all, particularly,
as
> you
> > >mentioned, if it's an imported pest with no natural controls.
Sometimes,
> > >too, the beneficial insect population has been so knocked down by other
> > >folk's spraying, or because of weather, that some help is needed.
> > >
> > >Where intervention is needed, I try to use the least toxic method for
the
> > >job. Many insects can be removed with a blast of water, or by smooshing
> > >them, or clipping off severely infested branches. Insecticidal soap
> sprays
> > >are useful for some soft-bodied insects such as Aphids. Ultra-fine hort
> oils
> > >such as Sunspray will do quite a fair job on White Fly (at least the
two
> > >kinds that we get here) and on Spider Mites.
> > >
> > >When I used to work in a greenhouse, we also used Cinna-mite, and one
> year
> > >an IGR for the Poinsettias. The greenhouse owners tried to avoid harsh
> > >pesticides as much as possible, preferring to release predators and do
> spot
> > >spraying w/ water or hort oil. It's not always possible in that kind of
> > >un-natural environment, though. If nothing else, the high fertility
> levels,
> > >particularly Nitrogen, make the plants more attractive to insects, not
to
> > >mention the inevitable crowding and the need to sell pest-free plants.
> > >
> > >I confess to using an IGR in my own greenhouse one year, when the White
> > >Flies were so bad that I couldn't inhale, and you couldn't walk through
> it
> > >without slipping on the insecticidal soap. It was my fault for not
paying
> > >attention, though, and also for bringing in an infested plant that I
felt
> > >sorry for. Never again!
> > >
> > >(I also should add that I still have my original bottles of both
Sunspray
> > >and Insecticidal Soap after many years. Obviously, I don't use very
> much.)
> > >
> > >Daryl
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message ----- 
> > >From: "David Franzman" <dfranzma@pacbell.net>
> > >To: "Garden" <gardenchat@hort.net>
> > >Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 2:39 PM
> > >Subject: [CHAT] insect control
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>Hey Daryl
> > >>
> > >>I just read your letter about allowing mother nature to take care of
the
> > >>insects in the garden.  I completely agree with you with this caveat:
> > >>Under your guidelines how should one control an insect invasion from a
> > >>foreign nation or area when that harmful bug has no natural controls?
> > >>There are many instances of this but the two that stand out here are
the
> > >>Glassy Winged Sharpshooter (from the southeast) which damages
vineyards
> > >>and more important for me and my business is the Giant Whitefly from
> > >>Mexico  which leaves a nasty white stringy goo on Hibs and other
> > >>plants.  Neither of these insects have a natural predator here so I
was
> > >>wondering how your philosophy deals with this kind of menace.  (Again,
> > >>in my garden I practice what you describe.)
> > >>
> > >>DF
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the
> > >message text UNSUBSCRIBE GARDENCHAT
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the
> > message text UNSUBSCRIBE GARDENCHAT
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the
> message text UNSUBSCRIBE GARDENCHAT

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To sign-off this list, send email to majordomo@hort.net with the
message text UNSUBSCRIBE GARDENCHAT
Other Mailing lists | Author Index | Date Index | Subject Index | Thread Index