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Re: All Available Data

Hosta Sport Scholars and others,

Although this topic is somewhat out of sequence, I wish to comment on it
for two reasons
   1. To provide some explanatory history of the work of the Sports
Committee and
   2. To raise some questions re our future direction of work.

I want to comment on Zonneveld's post re   the status of the sport
wheels documentation because it gives a false impression. He stated in
his post of Mar. 28, 2001....." By the way, the useless concept of the
wheels is now completely abandoned. The hosta wheel on the internet just
gives all sports, not the lineage or decent of the sports. My booklet is
still the only source for that".......

My comments are as follows. Zonneveld has repeatedly made reference to
the fact that his Booklet contains information on the sequence of
sports. And further that the sequence of sports gives important clues as
to the processes involved, thus the causes of sports. He infers that the
Hosta Wheels did not give such data. This statement is partly true and
partly false which I will explain.

The purpose of my presenting data beginning in 1995 in the manner
originally presented  was to show  groups of related sports that were
derived from a common progenitor ( a great grandfather hosta , for
example)  which  represented the original parent from which all further
sports in the group were derived, whether direct or indirectly. The
parent plant and all sports were placed in a circle like a clock face
and arrows were drawn from the original plant to its first sport. As
additional sports were reported. additional arrows were drawn
representing historical reporting of the existence of a new sport. This
information was based on information obtained from the person reporting
the sports. In this case it was considered accurate with permission
given by the provider of the information. You will see examples of the
way  this data was compiled in the "Clans" Article and the "Artist
Palette" Article in the Hosta Journals Vol. 26.2 and Vol 27.1
respectively.The purpose of recording the data was to show the
historical incidence of the sport, its source, its description as placed
on the circle and by whom it was found. It was a system of reporting the
"what" ...the historical incidence of the sports as described. It is
true that I was  not particularly interested in the use of the data  as
a clue for the "cause" of the sports.  This information may have been of
interest to a geneticist but it was not of particular interest to

To criticize the system of data collecting and compilation for the use
by someone else seems to be
a cheap shot and not justified. The wheel was considered a graphic data
base. It achieved its purpose of describing the hosta sports, recording
their existence  as indicated by the arrows and their positions on the
wheel and by  providing information on their source and chronological

When more and more sports were found in later years ( 1998 and onward),
a Hosta Wheel Committee of ten people became involved and some hosta
wheels were developed without arrows . By that time I had passed on
responsiblities of the Committee leadership to someone else who
arbitrarily left off the arrows because this information was perceived
as being relatively unimportant compared to other data.
This is unfortunate. But let's not have any complaints because a source
of data to copy, use without permission or citation of source had been
changed slightly, making the copying of data difficult.

We, as a committee,  are currently compiling data in a different format,
decided upon by those responsible for the compliation. Information
includes written articles, linkages to other sites, photos, information
on the committee and similar data. The wonderful world of sports
information has only just begun and we anticipate much, much more
electronically. So don't think we are inactive or that the concept has
been abandoned. Just because someone becomes ill and has to take some
time off, doesn't mean we have abandoned  a concept.   Other data bases
of other people are also compiling similar data making some of the data
compilation of the HostaSports.com somewhat redundant. We are now faced
with decisions re what direction we wish to take in the future and who
will do the volunteer work.

I hope this explanation has been somewhat helpful in understanding the
Committee's volunteer work. We need more volunteers and especially
inputs from many who can provide internet connections to transfer data
fast to compilers of sports information. So volunteer and learn a lot
while doing so. Log on to HostaSports.com, learn about the work
accomplished so far and communicate with members . Join their ranks
informally or formally if you wish. Ask how  you can help. Be a Hosta
Sports Scholar.Thanks.

Jim Hawes

Zonneveld writes:
As said repeatedly I based my booklet on ALL available data. All
important references are in my booklet page 6  However, the
friendly Mr Hawes was not prepared to give me the colors of the
plants he described . These 10 or so plants ( out of about 600!_)
are easy to spot in my booklet. It  are those were no color is
attached to the name!  By the way, this useless concept of the
wheel is now completely abandoned. The Hosta wheel on the
internet just gives all sports NOT the lineages or descent of the
sports. My booklet is still the only source for that.
Ben J.M.Zonneveld
Clusius lab pobox 9505
2300 RA Leiden
The Netherlands
Fax: 31-71-5274999
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