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One in 10,000


Ran Lydell says at 12:04 Sunday that one sport in 10,000 is simply at
odds with the facts.( I think he was saying it was too high?? )

Joe Halinar says at 9:27 Sunday that there is a vast difference between
the general notion that Hosta color sports occur at the rate  of one in
10,000 and reality. He goes on to attribute high rates of sporting to
the unstable (unsettled ) nature of new plant material which has not
stood the test of time to observe their true growth characterisitics (of
juvenility and maturity?) .

On Saturday  at 9:00, Jim Anderson started all of this off by stating
that mutations occur in the range of 1 in a million individuals...and
that he sees green to variegated (sports?)  in numbers closer to 1 in
10,000. So how do we resolve these differences in the range of 100 fold
off assumed rates of mutations to explain the high rates of sports in
hostas? .

Jim Hawes says first we must define our terms. Then we make our
assumptions about what it is we are talking about. Jim Anderson
mentioned "individuals"...but he didn't say whether these individuals
were plastids, cells,  primordial buds in the axils of primordial leaves
on the meristem or propagules which had new characteristics...thus a
sport. Nor were mutations defined in the assumptions necessary for an
intelligent discussion. Problem is, there were no assumption made at all
that I saw. Were these mutations mentioned of DNA in chromosomes in the
nucleus or were they mutations in the DNA of plastids in the cytoplasm
of cells? Since Jim A. asked Ben,  whose theories for causal factors for
sports do not correspond with conventional wisdom anyway ( see my post
to hosta-open  of May 24, 1999 which represents a critique of Ben's
funny article in Journal 30.1),  why are we waisting time discussing
this weak foundationless discussion?

Individual plastids which may sport and sort out into heteroplastidic
cells  and then create color sports are certainly within the range of
producing 1 in 10,000 sports of a given population. If we are talking
about individual cells which may sport, the same conclusion can be
reached to create one in 10,000 individuals  which may have mutated
plastids . Those individual cells could grow and differentiate into one
in 10,000 primordial buds which could theoretically sprout and grow
into  1 in 10,000 shoots which are sports from the original parent
meristem. This example is to show how weak the basis for the discussion
really is.

I ask a further question , does it matter anyway? If we have recognized
that hostas are unique in that they sport very frequently, do we need to
know the causes? And the frequencies? But if you really want to know the
causes, don't ask Ben. His theories are incomplete and are not backed up
by anything but his own statements.

The answer is in the plastids as I have been trying to explain. I
justify my opinion on the statements of Dr. Michael Marcotrigiano, a
world authority on variegation in plants.Read his works and become
enlightened.Also read Kevin Vaughn in Bulletin 11...he says the same

Jim Hawes.

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