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Re: RE: One in 10,000

Jim Anderson and other open Robins,

This post is in response to yours of late Sunday night. You wrote:
<Think you missed my point.> then you went on to tell me where I missed
your point.

Au contraire, mon ami. I am keeping up and even reading in between the
lines when necessary. I observed what you wanted to emphasize and what
you wanted to avoid discussing. I understood well that you were:

1. talking about nuclear mutations controlling color in hosta sports,
based upon your tc and academic experiences (This is perfectly  fine
with me).

2 that you were not interested in discussing any other parts of Ben's
theories, i.e..
   -tissue transfers
   -other rare possible causes
(this, too, is fine with me for the moment)

3.that you did not want to discuss plastid mutations, sorting out of
mutated /non-mutated plastid mixtures in cells and the role of this
phenomenon according to Vaughn's observations in cytoplasmic inheritance
as dscussed in Bulletin 11.( I thought this item should have been on the
agenda for discussion and I was surprized that it is dismissed without

4. that you wanted to discuss transposons as a possible explanation for
possible high rates of mutations ( In March 1999, I sent Joe the
Marcotrigiano article which described on page 778 how transposable
genetic elements can occasionally be transposed on one position on a
chromosome to another position, thereby being able to generate chimeras.
I also informed him of the initiative taken by Dr.Lois Girton about two
years ago to try to gather data to support the idea she had to explain
mosaic variegation by the presence of "jumping genes" in hostas...so
this concept is not a new one conceived this weekend).

5.that you wanted to get Ben to discuss this subject since he is still
involved in academia( This is fine with me also, provided he would
answer questions, cite sources of his infomation and use good scientific
proceedures....and that accepted classical research findings are
included on an equal time and space basis in the discussion).

6. that you did not want to consider the inputs I had made  in my posts
regarding classical research. which I continue to mention over and over
as important.

7. that it was obvious that you and Joe had collaborated in your agenda
for discussion. (I have no trouble with this either, except that it was
obvious that you were in the process of establishing a "new boys school"
and that I was being slightly slighted because I was of the "old" boys
school...not many of us left. I WILL BE HEARD because I have much
invested in the study of  this subject matter).

In my opinion, I don't think I missed any points you hoped to cover.
MIND. I hope you find this analysis as amusing as I do.

Now to get down to things I want to say. I saw all of the above
happening and I have read all discussions with keen interest. I think
most of the posts are very positive and are generating much interest and
knowledge on variegation in hostas. This exchange of views is GREAT in
my opinion, even when we may be going down the garden path too fast, too
deeply and taking a wrong turn occasionally because we forgot our road
map. The road map I refer to  is all of the written material already
recorded on this subject. The views of Marcotrigiano, Vaughn, Dermen,
Tiney-Bassett and others should not be overlooked or dismissed out of
hand. My interpretations  on this subject which have been five years in
the making , are also apparently being ignored. I do not claim to have
read all of the literature either, but I have read much of what relates
to the matters at hand.

My motives are to be helpful. Therefore, I plan to  forward you a xerox
copy of Marcotrigiano's article from HortScience, Vol 32(5) entitled
'Chimeras and Variegation: Patterns of Deceit". It covers the
warefront   in describing what I have been trying to get someone to
provide...a summary of the conventional wisdom concerning variegation.
Joe thought it was VERY interesting and it gave him some new insights
and ideas on this subject (so he told me last March 21, 1999 in an
e-mail post).

So I have had my brief moment in the sun. Now back to the reading mode
to see if what I wrote has any impact. on the thinking within the group.
Probably Not!!!!

Jim Hawes

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