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Re: Registration

  • Subject: Re: Registration
  • From: "Bill Meyer" njhosta@hotmail.com
  • Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 19:56:02 -0500

Hi Chick,
     To answer some of these questions:

     Regarding the reserving of names, I made a proposal to the AHS Board
that they put together a committee to consider the AHS position on
registration. At this point, there are no AHS rules regarding registration
and any interpretation of the ICNCP (code) is left entirely to the
registrar. I don't have the latest copy of the code, but the last one was
pretty vague in many areas. The registrar works to find ways to register
plants that fit within the code, and decides how to interpret it. With
anything as vague as the code, there are always different ways to look at
it, and more than one correct interpretation.
     Reserving names does not involve the code specifically. It isn't really
covered anywhere in there. With daylillies, that is an AH(em)S rule. An ICRA
(the registration authority - technically the registrar's boss) like the AHS
or the AH(em)S must follow the code, but can add additional rules of their
own. The AHS has few additional rules of its own.
     If they go ahead with a committee to start looking at whether they
should have registration rules beyond what the code specifies, things like
reserving names will be looked at.
     Regarding the establishment of names, the AH(em)S accepts establishment
in printed material for registration. The AHS does in fact have a rule in
place about filling out the forms being the only way to register hostas. The
ICNCP allows this in printed material, but not web material at this time as
George said. There is no reason we couldn't accept it too if the AHS decides
to go ahead with changing that rule and making additional more specific

    I think there is a lot of confusion caused by the AHS not having much in
the way of rules, and some of the fireworks back then with the IAC and all
were really caused by there being no rules other than the minimums specified
in the code. For example, does anyone know (not just have an opinion, but
know) at what age a hosta should be registered? There is no rule on that
either. I'm in favor of having rules put together and spelled out, so
everyone can know what they are. All we have now are various opinions about
these things and no rules to say what is right and what is wrong.

                                       .......Bill Meyer

> Details, details, details.  As interesting as all this stuff is, unless
> there is some reason that these details prohibit us from doing what the
> Daylily Society does, it still begs my original question.  Why don't we
> do it?  Or at least, why don't we discuss and consider doing it.  So
> far, after suggesting it at least once a year ever since we had the big
> blow up about manditory registrations and preferred growers, this is the
> most response I have ever had on the subject.  It won't hurt my feelings
> if the majority doesn't see it as a good idea, but why can't it be
> considered?  And if it has been considered, what was the outcome of the
> discussion?
> I assume that the Daylily Society finds it reasonable, they've been
> doing it for many years.
> And we still haven't discussed my other question.  If I have a list of
> 20 or 30 names I've used here, and I type them on a piece of paper and
> write "Catalog" on the top of the page and send them to the registrar,
> does that reserve those names?  I realize that's a bit extreme, but what
> I'm trying to find out is at what point does it become extreme?  If
> publishing a cultivar name in a catalog is enough to establish the name,
> to in fact reserve it, is that all it takes?  And if so, that would
> reserve the name permanently, rather than temporarily. And unlike the
> proposed sanctioned reserved name list, there would be no reqirement
> that the plant ever be registered.
> Chick
> Bobby Baxter - Wake Forest, NC wrote:
> > Chick, no name is officially registered until it completes the full
> > registration process.  Reserved names are not "registered", but that
> > are being held for a specific period of time or until the full process
> > is completed.
> >
> > A name may be approved as a reserved name if it meets the current
> > guidelines.  However, the ICNCP rules may change while that name is in
> > reserved status.  If a rule change affects that specific "reserved"
> > name, then that name may end up being rejected at the time of actual
> > registration. This does not occur frequently, but it does happen.
> >
> > Name reservation is a service the IRA may provide, but it is not a
> > substitute for actual registration.
> >
> > Bobby Baxter
> > http://happymoosegardens.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chick" <chick@bridgewoodgardens.com>
> > To: <hosta-open@hort.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:41 PM
> > Subject: Re: Registration
> >
> >
> >> I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.  Seems to happen to me a
> >> lot lately.
> >>
> >> In your first message, you seem to be saying that a list of reserved
> >> names is illigtimate, because the names have to be registered to be
> >> recognized.  So are you saying that the reserved names the Hem Society
> >> publishes in the Check List have no standing?
> >>
> >> I can't say that I would be surprised if that were the case, but I am
> >> surprised that if the names have no standing that the registration
> >> authority would publish them along with their registrations.
> >>
> >> And if that is what you are saying, is it enforced only by
> >> gentleperson's
> >> agreement?  And if so, aren't we gentlepersons too?  So why can't we do
> >> it?
> >>
> >> Or have I missed something again?
> >>
> >> Chick
> >>
> >> W. George Schmid wrote:
> >>
> >>  Same way. They have to follow the ICNCP too. All IRAs do. George
> >>  W. George Schmid
> >>  Hosta Hill - Tucker Georgia USA
> >>  Zone 7a - 1188 feet AMSL
> >>  84-12'-30" West_33-51' North
> >>  Outgoing e-mail virus checked by NAV
> >>  ----- Original Message -----  From: "Chick"
> >> <chick@bridgewoodgardens.com>  To: <hosta-open@hort.net>  Sent:
> >> Wednesday, March 02, 2005 8:35 PM
> >>  Subject: Re: Registration
> >>
> >>    How does the Daylily Society get around this?
> >>
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> >
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