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RE: Fire and Ice vs Loyalist

  • Subject: RE: Fire and Ice vs Loyalist
  • From: "James M. Anderson" <JmaHosta@WinterberryFarms.com>
  • Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:16:44 -0400
  • Importance: Normal


I fear that trying to pin down origins of sports could proved difficult
under the best of circumstances.  The problem, I think, lies in the inherent
genetic instability of Hosta varieties in general.  I have been collecting
sports of H. June.  At present we have three that are all sold as the
putative June (I am not including the truly distinctive sports of June).
Type 1 has a clear gold center with a thin blue edge, type 2 is similar to
one, but has a blue haze over the whole leaf.  Type 3 has a clear gold
center with a wide blue edge.  I have been told that there are others that I
have not seen.   The question arises as to which is the 'real' June and what
do we do with the others.  With the numbers of plants produced in TC the
variety has clearly drifted. I like the type 3 the best, but would I
responsible in replacing the type 1 we now grow with type 3?

Take H. Striptease and Gypsy Rose, both came off the original plant but are
clearly different varieties.

Jim Anderson

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hosta-open@mallorn.com
[mailto:owner-hosta-open@mallorn.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hawes
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 2:03 PM
To: hosta-open@mallorn.com; hawesj@atlantic.net
Subject: Re: Fire and Ice vs Loyalist

Rich and other y'alls,

My instincts tell me that laboratory analysis would not be able to "prove"
such truths as to whether a given sport derived from one source such as a
garden in one location is identical to an apparently identical   sport in a
different location. The same could be said of a sport which appearred in a
tissue culture laboratory. One container may produce one sport and another
may produce another sport which is not identical  for no apparent reason
other than that a nuclear mutation may have occurred in one culture and not

I think the key to understanding the meaning of this question is to look
the historical basis to prove whether a parent of a given sport has the same
clonal relationship to a parent of another  sport in question.  My hunch is
that if we could prove historical clonal relationships of the parents of
sports in question, we might be able to prove that sports in question are
identical because of this clonal background similarity....i.e the parents
may be historical  clones which is the basis for the similarity (or better,
the  identicality). Thus, most sports from either of the parents may be
identical irrespective of location of origin because of the identical nature
of the inherited plastid characteristics involved....once they are
sorted out, that is. My hunches are based partly upon the similarities
already explained today in another message re  'Parky's Prize' and other
sports,  such as one in my garden and  'Sweet Home Chicago'(Zilis) .
had nothing to do with the similarities but historical clonal relationships
of the parents of the sports  had a lot to do with  determining the
similarities, in my opinion.

Jim Hawes.

Jim Hawes

HoroRL@aol.com wrote:

> Hi, y'all:
> Would cellular or tissue microscopic analysis [such as flow cytometry] be
> able to sort out if sports from the same hosta but from different gardens
> were the same hosta?
> Hostally,
> Rich Horowitz
> Stoughton MA
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