Re: Fire and Ice vs Loyalist

Hi Dr. Jim,

I have to agree with you about what you have said about June , including types
1, 2 and 3 you described. I have seen several variable types of June and have
some in my garden including 'Paradise Joyce'. These are real problems that call
out for resolution. I think we are saying the same thing... pointing out that
there are some sports that are identical and why...as well as some sports which
are very dissimilar and why.

I believe that we would agree that first come the observations and
understandings before suggesting how these problems can be solved.

I hope to visit with you sometime this summer when it is convenient. I will try
to call ahead to see if you will be in Gay,  Ga. when I can get away.. OK?  I
will be in touch sometime soon..

Jim Hawes.
.....................................................................................................................

"James M. Anderson" wrote:

> Jim,
>
> I fear that trying to pin down origins of sports could proved difficult
> under the best of circumstances.  The problem, I think, lies in the inherent
> genetic instability of Hosta varieties in general.  I have been collecting
> sports of H. June.  At present we have three that are all sold as the
> putative June (I am not including the truly distinctive sports of June).
> Type 1 has a clear gold center with a thin blue edge, type 2 is similar to
> one, but has a blue haze over the whole leaf.  Type 3 has a clear gold
> center with a wide blue edge.  I have been told that there are others that I
> have not seen.   The question arises as to which is the 'real' June and what
> do we do with the others.  With the numbers of plants produced in TC the
> variety has clearly drifted. I like the type 3 the best, but would I
> responsible in replacing the type 1 we now grow with type 3?
>
> Take H. Striptease and Gypsy Rose, both came off the original plant but are
> clearly different varieties.
>
> Jim Anderson
> WFTC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-hosta-open@mallorn.com
> [o*@mallorn.com]On Behalf Of Jim Hawes
> Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 2:03 PM
> To: hosta-open@mallorn.com; hawesj@atlantic.net
> Subject: Re: Fire and Ice vs Loyalist
>
> Rich and other y'alls,
>
> My instincts tell me that laboratory analysis would not be able to "prove"
> such truths as to whether a given sport derived from one source such as a
> garden in one location is identical to an apparently identical   sport in a
> different location. The same could be said of a sport which appearred in a
> tissue culture laboratory. One container may produce one sport and another
> may produce another sport which is not identical  for no apparent reason
> other than that a nuclear mutation may have occurred in one culture and not
> another..
>
> I think the key to understanding the meaning of this question is to look
> into
> the historical basis to prove whether a parent of a given sport has the same
> clonal relationship to a parent of another  sport in question.  My hunch is
> that if we could prove historical clonal relationships of the parents of
> sports in question, we might be able to prove that sports in question are
> identical because of this clonal background similarity....i.e the parents
> may be historical  clones which is the basis for the similarity (or better,
> the  identicality). Thus, most sports from either of the parents may be
> identical irrespective of location of origin because of the identical nature
> of the inherited plastid characteristics involved....once they are
> completely
> sorted out, that is. My hunches are based partly upon the similarities
> already explained today in another message re  'Parky's Prize' and other
> sports,  such as one in my garden and  'Sweet Home Chicago'(Zilis) .
> Location
> had nothing to do with the similarities but historical clonal relationships
> of the parents of the sports  had a lot to do with  determining the
> similarities, in my opinion.
>
> Jim Hawes.
>
> Jim Hawes
>
> HoroRL@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Hi, y'all:
> >
> > Would cellular or tissue microscopic analysis [such as flow cytometry] be
> > able to sort out if sports from the same hosta but from different gardens
> > were the same hosta?
> >
> > Hostally,
> >
> > Rich Horowitz
> > Stoughton MA
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