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Re: Happy 4th

Just got back from First Look, which again was much fun and enjoyed by all.  Dave Chopko's garden was magnificent as usual.  I'm sure the other open garden was too, but I couldn't make it to that one.

Sorry I missed out on this particular thread, since I like nothing better than political and religious discussions, as they usually allow us all to put forth our most logical and rational thoughts and bring out the best in all of us.

For the record, I am definitely against nos. 1 through 3 and nos. 6 through 10.  Still thinking about 4 and 5.


Hank Zumach wrote:
HI Ann--I believe your interpretation of separation of church and state is inconsistent with U.S. Supreme court rulings for many, many decades.  Recent events, including George Bush's push for "faith based" welfare programs and the Supreme Court's recent ruling opening the tax coffers for the teaching of religion have caused me to give some thought to how are taxes may soon be spent.  Since you indicate my turmoil is "useless" please take a few minutes set my mind at ease by answering the following questions I have about separation of church and state.  Please give specific answer to the specific questions.   If you do not have specific answers, please just say so. 
 I have been taught in public schools, Catholic schools, and the Wisconsin university system that a basic, bedrock principle of our form of government is that tax money is spent in ways that reflect our system of values. Tax money is not to be spent in ways that do not reflect public policy. That sounds very simple, doesn't it?

1. Will the White Peoples Christian Church or the Ku Klux Klan, (which claims to be a Christian denomination) be able to use taxes to teach their religious belief that Jews and Blacks are subhuman? (they quote the Bible in support of their views)

2. Will taxes now be used to teach children that Christians should be killed because they are "infidels"?(reference the Koran) Or that Wiccans (witches) should be killed? (reference the Bible)

3. Will taxes now be used to teach children that homosexuals are abominations and should be killed? (reference the Bible , the Torah, the Koran)

4.. Will taxes now be used to teach children that women are subservient to men and that wives must obey their husbands? (reference the Bible, the Torah, the Koran)

5 Will taxes now be used to teach children that it is OK for them to be beaten with rods? (reference the Bible)

6. Will taxes now be used to teach, as scientific fact, thatabout 3000 years ago the entire world was covered with water and all the animal species were on board a boat? (reference the Bible, the Torah)

7.Will taxes now be used to teach that the Catholic Pope is the Anti-Christ? (reference Bob Jones University ..where George Bush made a major campaign speech for votes)

8. Will taxes now be used for the publication of religious tracts, evangelical literature, etc.? This material will be handed out in school rooms..how about door to door or in mass mailings? How will we know where the funding came from?

9. Will taxes now be used to pay the salaries of ayatollahs, priests, rabbis, ministers, nuns, etc? Who will decide that these people are really full time teachers/educators and not full time clerics?

10.Will taxes now be used to employ a sufficient number of auditors to investigate the religious teachings of voucher schools to guarantee that these public funds are being spent in a way that reflects our nation’s public policies?

If your answer is “yes” to any of the above, please explain how it reflects our country’s public policy. If you support vouchers for the teaching of religion, but do not think the above should be taught, how do propose we go about deciding which religious teachings are acceptable and which are not?

Hank Zumach
Stoddard, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: Ann James
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: Happy 4th

I don't know why you are so upset.  I kind of don't like the under God addition because I came of age to vote when Eisenhower was running and it was not part of the pledge then.  Not all the years I went to Catholic schools, where we indeed said the pledge, or public school after.  Where we also said the pledge.
The thing about separation of church and state in the constitution is about having a national church like Britain does.  Goodness knows Great Britain has enough separatist congregations, and one of them came over here to found America. But there is no established American church where it is the law, more or less.  So all this turmoil and complaint is sort of useless.
And isn't this about hostas, anyhow?  Mine are doing quite well, though something has bitten them. And I have duly put out poison, which I hate to do.
Ann James
A really old curmudgeon living in Conroe, Texas

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