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Re: About this "having a war" business....

  • Subject: Re: About this "having a war" business....
  • From: "Diann Thoma" <diannthoma@hotmail.com>
  • Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 20:20:01 -0000


I did read the opening salvos to all these accusations starting with the 
nematode thing.

I do not think Bob is the best thing since hostas appeared on the earth: I 
never met him. I admire what I see him doing. I don't know Andrew and even 
though I don't enjoy his long emails :-), I'm sure I'd admire his work as 

Sounds like they both owe each other apologies.


>From: "H. WILLIAMS" <msbucky@home.com>
>Reply-To: hosta-open@mallorn.com
>To: hosta-open@mallorn.com
>Subject: Re: About this "having a war" business....
>Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 15:58:02 -0400
>Diann Thoma wrote:
> >
> > Andrew, I don't mean this as a slam whatsoever, but I think you have
> > trouble letting go of things.
>Congratulations - you have forced me out of the closet again.
> > in detail here over what you consider to be a grossly unfair message 
> > Bob; and you expressed extensively why you believe there should be a 
> > policy on such messages.
>The message wasn't 'grossly unfair'- it was SLANDER.  Why should Andrew
>let it go?  The insinuation that he is/was a problem vendor on ebay is
>TOTALLY FALSE yet that message is now wandering the internet, archived
>on the open, for others like yourself who read only part of a thread.
>This is potentially damaging, not only to Andrew's reputation, but to
>his business.  Andrew requested a public apology - rightly so.
>Whoever the vendor Bob was referring to on ebay is - it ISN'T Andrew,
>and Bob should have the courtesy to acknowledge his error, publicly. Bob
>is lucky - if it were me, I would already have contacted my lawyer.
>That public slur on the internet is WORSE than if he'd published it in
>the newspaper.
> > No one has agreed with you, which also is not a slam.
> >
>Diann, just because a number of us have chosen NOT to join in here with
>our nickel, does not mean there isn't a silent MAJORITY out here who DO
>AGREE with Andrew.  It's bad enough to publicly identify a 'problem
>vendor' - it's unconscionable to wrongfully accuse someone and then turn
>your back and ignore the whole thing.  Bob's refusal to 'read the
>messages' anymore, is completely irresponsible, and childish, when all
>that is required is an apology.
>Your (and a few others) message in support of Bob, is all fine and well,
>but DID YOU BOTHER TO READ THE PREVIOUS POSTS?  Do you really know what
>this all about?  I doubt it.
>No one is saying Bob isn't the greatest thing to hit hostaland since
>sliced bread.  He works hard, he gives much.  It is all very much
>appreciated.  All that however doesn't give him the right to slander a
>fellow grower...
>Diann in case you are still confused... I am referring to the reference
>to Andrew and ebay, NOT TK49 - whoever that is.  Please - go back and
>re-read the messages.
> > Meanwhile, let it go, dude. Life's too short to hang on and on to (and 
> > continue to perpetrate) hurtful stuff of this calibur.
> >
> > Best,
> > Diann
> >
> > >From: "Andrew Lietzow" <andrewl@hostahaven.com>
> > >Reply-To: hosta-open@mallorn.com
> > >To: <hosta-open@mallorn.com>
> > >Subject: About this "having a war" business....
> > >Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:18:24 -0500
> > >
> > >Hello Bob (and the folks who comprise this eclectic group we call the
> > >Hosta-Open list),
> > >
> > >  BDeyes6@aol.com wrote:  >> I think these wars have been waged
> > >before......
> > >-------------------------------
> > >
> > >And "I"  think I see how these "wars" get started.
> > >
> > >1) I asked a simple question regarding policy, terms and conditions and 
> > >like, regarding your decision to post a message recommending that we 
> > >bid
> > >on auctions of one "Tk49" (essentially suspending his/her auctions. I
> > >believe the software does not support a suspension option, but I could 
> > >mistaken).  Apparently, you felt "just cause" existed for suspension 
>and I
> > >simply asked a question regarding whether there was a written policy 
> > >such actions.
> > >
> > >2) Later, you accused me, through a mistaken identity, of being a bad 
> > >seller.  I responded with a request that you correct this public 
> > >which was obviously in error (confusing me with someone else, whom I do 
> > >know), and you chose not to address this mistake with a simple 
> > >Something as simple as a "whoops, I made a mistake" would have 
> > >
> > >3) I send a note privately that recommends that discretion is the 
> > >part of valor, and that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw
> > >stones, etc. but OBVIOUSLY giving you he benefit of the doubt on this
> > >nematode issue (read the message again--I was trying to PRIVATELY alert 
> > >to a possible issue and explaining that I withheld alerting you until I
> > >could do more research).  Then you decide to throw this private
> > >conversation
> > >into the fire, racheting up the rhetoric and passion, provoking people 
> > >feel they need to defend you or attack me, etc.
> > >
> > >(And I know I've skipped a few parts, but I hope this is a half decent,
> > >albeit subjective, synopsis).
> > >
> > >Now we have people thinking we're having some kind of a "war".  I can 
> > >how they might.  Instead, I would like to redirect you back to the 
> > >question at hand.
> > >
> > >"Is there a written policy, publicly available, regarding when and how
> > >action is taken that would cause sellers or buyers to be suspended from
> > >participating in the HostaLibrary.org auctions".  If you don't want to 
> > >the time to answer the question directly, Bob, that is your perogative.
> > >And, if you don't take the time to read my messages for whatever 
> > >then you'll seldom see any value in a applying reason where reason is 
> > >that is required.   A "yes"; a "no"; an "I have no policy and have no
> > >intention on working on it";  I would simply like to know because I 
> > >had
> > >some transactions on the HL.org auctions and want to know the 
> > >that are being followed when there is a problem.  And if there are no
> > >standardized procedures, then I simply need to know that, too.  I would
> > >encourage you to establish some if you want the process to appear fair.
> > >That's it. Nothing initially inflammatory at all.
> > >
> > >I hope Mr/Ms Tk49 surfaces soon so we can find out what is going on.  
> > >one signs up to be a seller, maybe there needs to be a more rigorous
> > >process
> > >of getting information on just who these people are.  Legitimate 
> > >aside, if I had sent money and was getting no where with email, I would
> > >like
> > >to have access to a snail mail address or a phone number.  Of course, 
> > >can always use the same method you have this time.  It's your auction 
> > >Since there is some public support, however, I imagine the policy 
>should be
> > >uniformly applied so your actions are above reproach.
> > >
> > >Auction fraud is not a new phenomena and I regret if you think I was
> > >personally attacking you.  There was NEVER any intention on my part to 
> > >so.  I'm simply asking a straight forward question about written 
>policy.  I
> > >hardly think that one could construe that type of a request as grounds 
> > >"war" or a "showdown at the OK Corral".
> > >
> > >Hey everyone, have fun at First Look!
> > >
> > >Andrew Lietzow
> > >#1 Plantsman at http://HostaHaven.com
> > >1250 41st Street
> > >Des Moines, IA 50311-2516
> > >eBay Search: <Hosta HH>
> > >515-274-0300
> > >
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