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  • Subject: RE: [iris-photos] Re: HYB - UMBATA
  • From: Chad Schroter <chad.schroter@quantum.com>
  • Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:10:12 -0800

	I had to reread the original message before a few things sank in...
In looking at these bands they appear to always show the color of the
standards, which could be termed the 'background' color. In Barry's catalog
I see variants which are dark blue as your example with minimal carotenoids
etc., more reddish purple (maroon or deep rose) reflecting more
carotenoids/less antho and also brownish - reflecting a small dose of
antho's and strong carotenoid. So the fall edge rim pattern does not appear
to be selective of one source of pigment vs. another. When crosses are made
where each parent carries this pattern and both also contain the antho and
carotenoid pigments do the seedlings show the pattern in several color forms
? For example I'm wondering if a Tom Johnson x Copatonic cross could yield
some offspring that looked like Copatonic (in a range of colors) or would
they be restricted to blues like your seedling ?

Chad Schroter

>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Paul Black [mailto:midamerg@earthlink.net]
>>>Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 12:46 PM
>>>To: iris-photos@egroups.com
>>>Subject: [iris-photos] Re: HYB - UMBATA
>>>Hi Chad,
>>>This is also a new term for me.  It is a term that evidently came 
>>>about in some of the earlier iris talk discussions.  My first 
>>>encounter with it was a message from Linda Mann.  Linda, 
>>>maybe you can 
>>>cue us as to its origin.  I think it is one of those tentative 
>>>descriptions given to a pattern to help aid in making the discussion 
>>>Paul Black
>>>Zone 8  Salem, Oregon
>>>--- In iris-photos@egroups.com, Chad Schroter <chad.schroter@q...> 
>>>> 	This is a new term for me, "Umbata"...  I ordered something 
>>>> Barry called 'Touch of Mahogany', it is out of Copatonic. T.O.M. 
>>>shows this
>>>> same pattern and color (coffee brown with a bold burgundy 
>>>center on 
>>>> falls) as Copatonic, however there is also a spot or flush in the 
>>>center of
>>>> the Falls which is pale violet. There is no 'blending' of the 
>>>burgundy and
>>>> violet either. My guess is that a gene has suppressed all pigments 
>>>in the
>>>> center fall spot area except for the pale violet (anthocyanin?) - 
>>>> the burgundy area is a combination of pale violet and some 
>>>carotenoids ? 
>>>> Chad Schroter
>>>> Los Gatos CA Zone 9
>>>> >>>-----Original Message-----
>>>> >>>From: PAUL BLACK [mailto:midamerg@e...]
>>>> >>>Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 6:11 PM
>>>> >>>To: iris-photos@egroups.com
>>>> >>>Subject: [iris-photos] RE: HYB - UMBATA
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>This is probably a very involved, interactive pattern.  Some 
>>>> >>>of the more
>>>> >>>recent, distinctive work comes from Barry Blyth's lines 
>>>> >>>which go back to
>>>> >>>Peach Spot and further back to Snow Peach.  There are also 
>>>> >>>the patterns
>>>> >>>like Joyce Terry with the more defined banding.  A further 
>>>> >>>would be the plicata bands.  The tall bearded gene pool is 
>>>> >>>so mixed at
>>>> >>>this point that it will take a lot of sorting to figure 
>>>out what 
>>>> >>>origins of these patterns are and how they relate to each 
>>>> >>>other and to
>>>> >>>other modifiers.  Barry Blyth's Copatonic is a really good 
>>>example of
>>>> >>>one of the phenotypic expressions of this pattern.  I'm 
>>>> >>>picture of H93A which is also a good example of an amoena type
>>>> >>>expression.  Tom Johnson is one of the parents and Tom is 
>>>> >>>directly from
>>>> >>>Barry Blyth's bicolor line.  There are so many influences on 
>>>> >>>this type
>>>> >>>pattern that I am sure there are no easy answers.  When I 
>>>> >>>use patterns
>>>> >>>of this type, I approach it more from the vantage point of 
>>>> >>>what happens
>>>> >>>if I add more anthocyanin or add the carotenoid pigments or 
>>>> >>>Of course, what happens with the interaction of these is still 
>>>only a
>>>> >>>guess.  All those unknowns is what makes it fun - and 
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>Paul Black
>>>> >>>Zone 8 Salem, Oregon
>>>> >>>
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