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Re: Re: HIST: TB: Pink Opal- use of species designation

  • Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re: HIST: TB: Pink Opal- use of species designation
  • From: irischapman@netscape.net
  • Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 22:57:59 -0500

So what is the parentage of Pink Opal?  Can it be traced back to wild  
species withut any other species?

And which of the pallida series were used in its  parentage?

I have been reading the recent research  on pallida series (published 
in Croatia) and  may help out with the research. They have used very 
sophisticated scientific methods and the papers are quite convincing. 
The research suggests very strongly that the only collected forms of 
pallida is the population reported by Dykes , in the lower Alps. All 
the rest are one of the other pallida series, cengaialti, illyrica, and 
pseudopallida as well as another unique aand isolated  form which may 
be a hybrid.
Thus  it  does present problems. Ensata doesn't have this problem, only 
one species. The same with many other species , such as pseudacorous. 
In addition , some of the early identified pallida, such as Dalmatica, 
have some suspicions. Dalmatica was found in an English garden unknown 
time since collected. It has cytologicaland morphological differences 
 from wild collected species and has abnormal pollen which is not 
usually seen in wild collected plants and often seen in hybrids. Plants 
from this clone are also called pallida, perhaps not justified.

The distinction between wild collected and other forms does need to be 
made to prevent further confussion.
I have no problem with term ensata , pseudacolor  versicolor etc, but 
when we get to siberian,  spuria and ilk we need to recognice that 
these are garden and not species classification. per say.

Chuck Chapman

-----Original Message-----
From: Robt R Pries <rpries@sbcglobal.net>
To: iris-photos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 08:12:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re:  HIST: TB: Pink Opal- use of species 

   I believe I agree with Walter if something is a
 pallida even if it was crossed with pallidas for ten
 generations in the garden it is still a pallida. 5000
 generations is something else again. At some point a
 new taxonomic name is given to garden creations
 especially if they have hybridized with other species.
 But as a case in point, All japanese Iris are the
 species iris ensata. Even though they may have been
 selected in gardens for 200 years they are still Iris
 ensata. wild populations do look very different than
 the cultivated plants. One misunderstanding is that
 wild populations often have individuals that look very
 different also from the general population. It is just
 that we collect these rare variants. Today man has sad
 to say impacted even the wildest of habitats. Many of
 us no longer view nature as being outside of gardens.
 But the whole world now is a garden whether we are
 really taking responsibility for that fact or not.
 wildness is now a spectrum from totally man selected
 to partly man influenced. Of course I would like to
 see certain cultivars distinguished as "wild
 collected" but there are fewer and fewer populations
 that many of us would call wild. And just becuase
 something has been grown in a garden and given a
 cultivar name does not automatically mean it is less

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