Re: Re: HIST: TB: Pink Opal- use of species designation
- Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re: HIST: TB: Pink Opal- use of species designation
- From: firstname.lastname@example.org
- Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 22:57:59 -0500
So what is the parentage of Pink Opal? Can it be traced back to wild
species withut any other species?
And which of the pallida series were used in its parentage?
I have been reading the recent research on pallida series (published
in Croatia) and may help out with the research. They have used very
sophisticated scientific methods and the papers are quite convincing.
The research suggests very strongly that the only collected forms of
pallida is the population reported by Dykes , in the lower Alps. All
the rest are one of the other pallida series, cengaialti, illyrica, and
pseudopallida as well as another unique aand isolated form which may
be a hybrid.
Thus it does present problems. Ensata doesn't have this problem, only
one species. The same with many other species , such as pseudacorous.
In addition , some of the early identified pallida, such as Dalmatica,
have some suspicions. Dalmatica was found in an English garden unknown
time since collected. It has cytologicaland morphological differences
from wild collected species and has abnormal pollen which is not
usually seen in wild collected plants and often seen in hybrids. Plants
from this clone are also called pallida, perhaps not justified.
The distinction between wild collected and other forms does need to be
made to prevent further confussion.
I have no problem with term ensata , pseudacolor versicolor etc, but
when we get to siberian, spuria and ilk we need to recognice that
these are garden and not species classification. per say.
From: Robt R Pries <email@example.com>
Sent: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 08:12:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [iris-photos] Re: HIST: TB: Pink Opal- use of species
I believe I agree with Walter if something is a
pallida even if it was crossed with pallidas for ten
generations in the garden it is still a pallida. 5000
generations is something else again. At some point a
new taxonomic name is given to garden creations
especially if they have hybridized with other species.
But as a case in point, All japanese Iris are the
species iris ensata. Even though they may have been
selected in gardens for 200 years they are still Iris
ensata. wild populations do look very different than
the cultivated plants. One misunderstanding is that
wild populations often have individuals that look very
different also from the general population. It is just
that we collect these rare variants. Today man has sad
to say impacted even the wildest of habitats. Many of
us no longer view nature as being outside of gardens.
But the whole world now is a garden whether we are
really taking responsibility for that fact or not.
wildness is now a spectrum from totally man selected
to partly man influenced. Of course I would like to
see certain cultivars distinguished as "wild
collected" but there are fewer and fewer populations
that many of us would call wild. And just becuase
something has been grown in a garden and given a
cultivar name does not automatically mean it is less
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