Re: HIST: TB: Pink Opal- use of species designation
- Subject: Re: [iris-photos] HIST: TB: Pink Opal- use of species designation
- From: email@example.com
- Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 23:21:15 -0500
Indeed., we need to indeed be cautious. I could accept the term
"suspected to be " much more easily then having it stated as a fact,
when there is no supportive hard evidence. Some morpological date
comparing to information in "Comparitive Morphological Analysis of the
Genus Iris L., Pallidae series" Mitic & Pavletic. Natura Croatica,
Dec 1999, would be more convincing to me.
From: David Ferguson <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Sent: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 19:41:25 -0700
Subject: [iris-photos] HIST: TB: Pink Opal- use of species designation
Perhaps caution is in order in calling cultivars with unknown
ancestry by a species name, but this one seems pretty obvious to me.
Now, at the risk of raising some eyebrows -
As for the dogs, biologically dogs are indeed wolves, and they should
be considered the same species. There are no reproductive barriers
between them, and domestic dogs revert to being wolves again (for all
practical purposes) when they are feral for even a short time. Given a
few generations of breeding, feral dogs even start to look like wolves
again. It has always seemed ludicrous to me that we call domestic
animals by different species names from their wild ancestors. Of course
some would argue that perhaps other species of wild dog went into the
ancestry of domestic dogs, in which case they are hybrids between
species, and not of pure wolf ancestry.
This is not to imply that all domestic breeds should be called by wild
species names. In fact most plant cultivars are hybrids of multiple
species, and it is almost impossible to sort out which species are in
their ancestry. Non-the-less, they are the product of hybridizing and
selecting from wild species.
As long as 'Pink Opal' has only I. pallida in its ancestry, it is I.
pallida. Now it is possible that there are other species in its
ancestry, in which case I am wrong (thus making the case for using
caution), but I think it is not likely. 'Pink Opal' doesn't differ in
any significant way that I can see from other "pink" (perhaps more
accurately - "rose") I. pallida; just looks like another seedling of
the species to me, and probably not several generations from wild
Point of view of one population biologist, zoologist, and botanist.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 7:19 AM
Subject: [iris-photos] Re: HIST: TB: Pink Opal- use of species
While this may have all and only pallida in its ancesry I have problems
calling it a pallida. It was hyridized in the garden, not collected in
wild and I beilive , several generations from the wild. As soon as
plants are selected for certain characteristics we soon see things that
are different then nature.
If we used this sort of deignation then we should be calling long
haired dashunds and indeed all breeds of dogs , wolves, as their
genetics is 100% from wolves. And to study wolf behavior /genetics we
should use these domestic "Wolves"in our studies, no need to send
biologists into the wild, save a lot of money on resesrch that way.
From: David Ferguson <email@example.com>
Sent: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 22:24:44 -0700
Subject: Re: [iris-photos] HIST: TB: Pink Opal
Nice picture. A cultivar of I. pallida - one of my favorite species.
Never could quite see this one as pink, even by standards of Sass's
day, but it is "pinkish". Smells nice.
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