Re: HIST: TB: Pink Opal- use of species designation

Indeed., we need to indeed be cautious. I could accept the  term  
"suspected to be "  much more easily then having it stated as a fact, 
when there is no supportive hard evidence.  Some  morpological date  
comparing to information in "Comparitive Morphological Analysis of the 
Genus  Iris L., Pallidae series" Mitic & Pavletic.  Natura Croatica, 
Dec 1999,  would be more convincing to me.

Chuck Chapman

-----Original Message-----
From: David Ferguson <manzano57@msn.com>
To: iris-photos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 19:41:25 -0700
Subject: [iris-photos] HIST: TB: Pink Opal- use of species designation

    Perhaps caution is in order in calling cultivars with unknown 
ancestry by a species name, but this one seems pretty obvious to me.

 Now, at the risk of raising some eyebrows -

  As for the dogs, biologically dogs are indeed wolves, and they should 
be considered the same species. There are no reproductive barriers 
between them, and domestic dogs revert to being wolves again (for all 
practical purposes) when they are feral for even a short time. Given a 
few generations of breeding, feral dogs even start to look like wolves 
again. It has always seemed ludicrous to me that we call domestic 
animals by different species names from their wild ancestors. Of course 
some would argue that perhaps other species of wild dog went into the 
ancestry of domestic dogs, in which case they are hybrids between 
species, and not of pure wolf ancestry.

  This is not to imply that all domestic breeds should be called by wild 
species names. In fact most plant cultivars are hybrids of multiple 
species, and it is almost impossible to sort out which species are in 
their ancestry. Non-the-less, they are the product of hybridizing and 
selecting from wild species.

  As long as 'Pink Opal' has only I. pallida in its ancestry, it is I. 
pallida. Now it is possible that there are other species in its 
ancestry, in which case I am wrong (thus making the case for using 
caution), but I think it is not likely. 'Pink Opal' doesn't differ in 
any significant way that I can see from other "pink" (perhaps more 
accurately - "rose") I. pallida; just looks like another seedling of 
the species to me, and probably not several generations from wild 
either.

 Point of view of one population biologist, zoologist, and botanist.

Dave
  ----- Original Message -----
 From: irischapman@netscape.net
 To: iris-photos@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 7:19 AM
  Subject: [iris-photos] Re: HIST: TB: Pink Opal- use of species 
designation


While this may have all and only pallida in its ancesry I have problems
calling it a pallida. It was hyridized in the garden, not collected in
wild and I beilive , several generations from the wild. As soon as
plants are selected for certain characteristics we soon see things that
are different then nature.
If we used this sort of deignation then we should be calling long
haired dashunds and indeed all breeds of dogs , wolves, as their
genetics is 100% from wolves. And to study wolf behavior /genetics we
should use these domestic "Wolves"in our studies, no need to send
biologists into the wild, save a lot of money on resesrch that way.

Chuck Chapman

-----Original Message-----
From: David Ferguson <manzano57@msn.com>
To: iris-photos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 22:24:44 -0700
Subject: Re: [iris-photos] HIST: TB: Pink Opal

 Robin,

Nice picture. A cultivar of I. pallida - one of my favorite species.

 Never could quite see this one as pink, even by standards of Sass's
day, but it is "pinkish". Smells nice.

Dave



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