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HIST: TB: Pink Opal- use of species designation

  • Subject: [iris-photos] HIST: TB: Pink Opal- use of species designation
  • From: "David Ferguson" manzano57@msn.com
  • Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 19:41:25 -0700
  • Seal-send-time: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 19:41:26 -0700

Perhaps caution is in order in calling cultivars with unknown ancestry by a species name, but this one seems pretty obvious to me.
 
Now, at the risk of raising some eyebrows -
 
As for the dogs, biologically dogs are indeed wolves, and they should be considered the same species.  There are no reproductive barriers between them, and domestic dogs revert to being wolves again (for all practical purposes) when they are feral for even a short time.  Given a few generations of breeding, feral dogs even start to look like wolves again.  It has always seemed ludicrous to me that we call domestic animals by different species names from their wild ancestors.  Of course some would argue that perhaps other species of wild dog went into the ancestry of domestic dogs, in which case they are hybrids between species, and not of pure wolf ancestry.
 
This is not to imply that all domestic breeds should be called by wild species names.  In fact most plant cultivars are hybrids of multiple species, and it is almost impossible to sort out which species are in their ancestry.  Non-the-less, they are the product of hybridizing and selecting from wild species.
 
As long as 'Pink Opal' has only I. pallida in its ancestry, it is I. pallida.  Now it is possible that there are other species in its ancestry, in which case I am wrong (thus making the case for using caution), but I think it is not likely.  'Pink Opal' doesn't differ in any significant way that I can see from other "pink" (perhaps more accurately - "rose") I. pallida; just looks like another seedling of the species to me, and probably not several generations from wild either.
 
Point of view of one population biologist, zoologist, and botanist.

Dave
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 7:19 AM
Subject: [iris-photos] Re: HIST: TB: Pink Opal- use of species designation

While this may have all and only pallida in its ancesry I have problems
calling it a pallida.  It was hyridized in the garden, not collected in
wild and I beilive , several generations from the wild.  As soon as
plants are selected for certain characteristics we soon see things that
are different then nature.
If we used this sort of deignation then we should be calling  long
haired dashunds and  indeed all breeds of dogs , wolves, as their
genetics is 100% from wolves. And to study wolf behavior /genetics we
should use these domestic "Wolves"in our studies, no need to send
biologists into the wild, save a lot of money on resesrch that way.

Chuck Chapman

-----Original Message-----
From: David Ferguson <manzano57@msn.com>
To: iris-photos@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 22:24:44 -0700
Subject: Re: [iris-photos] HIST: TB: Pink Opal

   Robin,

Nice picture. A cultivar of I. pallida - one of my favorite species.

  Never could quite see this one as pink, even by standards of Sass's
day, but it is "pinkish". Smells nice.

Dave


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