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Re: HYB Mystery solved

  • Subject: Re: HYB Mystery solved
  • From: irischapman@aim.com
  • Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 21:40:22 -0400

Actually both of these crosses with MTB pod parents look like they
have MTB on both parents side of the parentage.

They both have typical MTB forms and show no influence from hoped for

It is very possible to produce seeds from a crosss of a tet and a
biploid parent. It hapens much more readily from tet pollen on biploid
pod parent. This is a result of a tendency of the pod parent to
produce a certain small percentage of unreduced gamettes. This is a
result of erors in the reproductive cell division. I know of no
reason of why there should be any difference between SDB and TB
parents. But in any case I have made several tet TB on dip MTB
crosses that worked, with iris. You know you have a take from looking
at the seeds. There are very few seeds in the pod, and they often are
initially larger then the dip produces. I say initially larger as
sometimes the endosperm (seed nourishment material) dies off as the
seeds mature. I won't fgo into the reason for this, but it is an
intersting part of the pollination process.

Some of the seeds will germinate, but many more don't.

Last year I made about 40 crosses of tet daylily pollon on a dip
daylily.(the equivalent of TB X MTB cross) About 15 pods formed.
About 1-4 seeds per pod as versus normal count of about 15-40. Of
these seeds only about 5-6 remained plump, the others became very
flat, with lack of endosperm tissue. Two germinated. Others who have
made tet on dip daylily crosses get about the same. allthough they
don't report a high a percentage of flat seeds.

There are genetic papers and data in books supporting what I'm saying,
as well as personal experience. My first attempt was done in
ignorence. the rest after I read the scientific literature.

As far as I know, all SDB are 8/8/12/12. There may be a few rare
exceptions, but very rare. Smooth, an SDB introduced by Craig is
eported to be 12/12/12/12/ . SDB produce gamettes of 8/12 based on
their amphidiploid composition and all seedlings from SDB X SDB will
have 8/8/12/12 composition.

You do have variations in MDB and IB as some 8/8/12/12 plants can be
MDB in height and some can be IB in height.

Chuck Chapman

Re: HYB Mystery solved

Posted by: "loic tasquier"


Tue May 20, 2008 10:39 pm (PDT)

I'm sorry to disappoint you Brock, but there might be an
explanation to this seedling : my knowledge of genetics i null.

But I've been contacted off-line by a genetics expert who explained to
me that MTB X SDB crosses were absolutely possible, SDB being
12-12-8-8, or 12-8-8-8, or 12-12-12-8 therefore would be compatible
with diplo 12-12 MDBs (still, like pumilas,some rare SDBs are
tetraploid 8-8-8-8, but it's not the case of Hot, involved in the first

For the second cross, it would seem that a bee got there first before i
used High Master, TB being 12-12-12-12, which would make them
incompatible with12-12- MTBs.

Still, since there are still some MTBs in bloom now in the garden, i
will try to systematically pollinate the just-opened-ones with TBs,
just to test the theory.

That's exciting!


----- Original Message ----- From: eroctuse2

To: iris-photos@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 1:59 AM

Subject: [iris-photos] Re: HYB Fiesta Fling X High master

Beautiful Loïc!

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