Thanks a lot Chuck, you make me feel better
The 2 crosses might finally be what i thought they
were, (which proves that i haven't totally
lost my marbles yet...), and even though they are
not a miracle, i kind of got lucky !
Yesterday, i pollinated all the MTBs opened
with REB-TB pollen, always keeping in mind my
Of course, there won't be many pods, nor many seeds
in the rare pods that will take, nor much germination later... but the happy few
that will eventually bloom will be SO precious to my eyes, they will be worth
the effort I'm sure.
And i LOVE challenges!
This project doesn't need much room, since poor
germination implies few seedlings, so this challenge could be even shared by
people with smaller gardens.
It would be great to be many more to work in this
direction, and so easy to share the results and even pictures thanks to this
Hope the 'Beating the Odds' game will appeal to
many of you.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 3:40
Subject: [iris-photos] Re: HYB Mystery
Actually both of these crosses with MTB pod parents look like they
MTB on both parents side of the parentage.
They both have typical MTB
forms and show no influence from hoped for
It is very
possible to produce seeds from a crosss of a tet and a
biploid parent. It
hapens much more readily from tet pollen on biploid
pod parent. This is a
result of a tendency of the pod parent to
produce a certain small
percentage of unreduced gamettes. This is a
result of erors in the
reproductive cell division. I know of no
reason of why there should be any
difference between SDB and TB
parents. But in any case I have made several
tet TB on dip MTB
crosses that worked, with iris. You know you have a take
at the seeds. There are very few seeds in the pod, and they
initially larger then the dip produces. I say initially larger
sometimes the endosperm (seed nourishment material) dies off as the
seeds mature. I won't fgo into the reason for this, but it is an
intersting part of the pollination process.
Some of the seeds will
germinate, but many more don't.
Last year I made about 40 crosses of
tet daylily pollon on a dip
daylily.(the equivalent of TB X MTB cross)
About 15 pods formed.
About 1-4 seeds per pod as versus normal count of
about 15-40. Of
these seeds only about 5-6 remained plump, the others
flat, with lack of endosperm tissue. Two germinated. Others
made tet on dip daylily crosses get about the same. allthough
don't report a high a percentage of flat seeds.
genetic papers and data in books supporting what I'm saying,
as well as
personal experience. My first attempt was done in
ignorence. the rest
after I read the scientific literature.
As far as I know, all SDB are
8/8/12/12. There may be a few rare
exceptions, but very rare. Smooth, an
SDB introduced by Craig is
eported to be 12/12/12/12/ . SDB produce
gamettes of 8/12 based on
their amphidiploid composition and all seedlings
from SDB X SDB will
have 8/8/12/12 composition.
You do have
variations in MDB and IB as some 8/8/12/12 plants can be
MDB in height and
some can be IB in height.
Re: HYB Mystery
Posted by: "loic tasquier"
May 20, 2008 10:39 pm (PDT)
I'm sorry to disappoint you Brock, but
there might be an
explanation to this seedling : my knowledge of genetics
But I've been contacted off-line by a genetics expert who
me that MTB X SDB crosses were absolutely possible, SDB being
12-12-8-8, or 12-8-8-8, or 12-12-12-8 therefore would be compatible
with diplo 12-12 MDBs (still, like pumilas,some rare SDBs are
tetraploid 8-8-8-8, but it's not the case of Hot, involved in the first
For the second cross, it would seem that a bee got there
first before i
used High Master, TB being 12-12-12-12, which would make
incompatible with12-12- MTBs.
Still, since there are still
some MTBs in bloom now in the garden, i
will try to systematically
pollinate the just-opened-ones with TBs,
just to test the
----- Original Message
----- From: eroctuse2
Wednesday, May 21, 2008 1:59 AM
Subject: [iris-photos] Re: HYB Fiesta
Fling X High master