Jamie, you are right in that I didn't specify in original post, but I
did clarify later. You may have missed those.
Chuck Chapman
-----Original Message-----
From: 'JamieV.' jamievande@freenet.de [iris-species]
<iris-species@yahoogroups.com>
To: iris-species <iris-species@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 5, 2015 4:15 pm
Subject: Re: [iris-species] naming irises
Are we all clear on the differences, then. A clone is a specific
genetic entity, while a cultivar is not restricted to this degree.
One could think of it as a refined gene pool. It is important that
one understands the difference as a cultivar has a much broader
reach.
How a cultivar is produced does not play a big role, so long as
the offered entities meet the description.
As to the F generation, Chuck, your professor is simply
incorrect. You make no difference between animals and plants. It
is a clear basic definition, and, as I noted, filial, which means
brother/sisters, in short, direct relatives, is the keystone of
the definition. If one wishes to further restrict this definition
in their work, that is their option, but it does not change the
definition in general. F2 is both selfing and between members of
the F1 generation (and their parents, for that matter). It allows
one to define on which sequential generation one is referring to
and the relationships. Simply that it has become fashionable to
work with direct in-breeding on the first level (selfing), it
doesn't change F generation definitions. If one were to change
the definition, it would make generations of previous work
invalid! When I hear teachers/professors passing on such
information as though it was an indelible truth, I am not
surprised that many cannot grasp some of these very basic genetic
concepts. Mind you, professors are human, as well, and pass on
that which they have been taught, whether it reflects the rules or
not.
As to the registration of cultivar strains, yes, this is done,
but I do not know of any defined strains under Iris or
Hemerocallis, which does not mean it can't happen. Just hasn't
reached this point. With Pardancanda norrisi (as ex) being
consider as part of the genus Iris, a seed strain may well be
registered. One must ask themselves, if it is a good idea. You
do not need to register a strain to make it financially valid.Â
You do it for posterity. Registration is not copyright. Or
Patent, for that matter.
I hope I am not ruffling too many feathers. I am simply speaking
from decades of work with genetics and breeding.
cheers,
Jamie
Am 05.02.2015 um 21:36 schrieb Chuck Chapman irischapman@aim.com
[iris-species]:
Yes. As that is how we ( iris people) defined it for our plants.
Same way someone buying a 'Bosc' pear tree gets a clone of original
and not something grown from a seed of a 'Bosc' pear. No mater how
much seedling looks like parent 'bosc' pear. But someone buying a
'Millenium' asparagus ( it was developed by the prof Dr. Wolyn)
gets a seedling grown from seed from parental stock.
Chuck Chapman
-----Original Message-----
From: sdunkley1@bellsouth.net [iris-species]
<iris-species@yahoogroups.com>
To: iris-species <iris-species@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 5, 2015 11:39 am
Subject: Re: [iris-species] naming irises
I want to make sure I understand correctly. And I'm still trying to
compute what the implications are for what the lecturing professor
said. (When it comes to matters of clone and cultivar it seems it can
be difficult to make sure everyone understands each other clearly.) The
AIS only registers iris clones? I presume this would mean this is the
current policy but things in the past might be have been different. So
for an iris hypothetically registered in 2015 as 'HYPO', this iris name
is to be understood by the world as denoting a singular clone and a
cultivar and these two are synonymous? And to be clearer still, no
other clone but this singular clone can be properly labeled or referred
to as 'HYPO', no matter how phenotypically it resembles 'HYPO'?
All the fuss being perhaps important if in 2050 we are trying to
protect the utility of name 'HYPO' when doing research where it shows
in the pedigree of various irises.
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Posted by: Chuck Chapman <irischapman@aim.com>
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