Re: Re: SPEC-X

 

A bit of history might help. I guess it was about twenty years ago I noticed that the judges handbook had a section on judging species. But there were no awards for species so why would you judge them. Many others thought this strange also and I was able to get a movement going to provide awards. One important aspect I felt was that there should be two awards and that no iris would fall outside the awards system. It was obvous to me that better garden worthy plant existed among the species and hybrids because people had been registering special plants from the beginning of registration. Also the classes of irises have developed through time. When the text for the judges handbook describing these new classes I was not pleased. It did not reflect what I had fought so hard for, and that was that no iris would be exempt from the awards system.

Sadly the judges handbook and AIS perpetuates a problem. By creating point scales they imply a formula for judging each class. I often get upset with the judges handbook because it does not explain why something is done. For example the reason more points are given in a class to a certain atribute compared to the points given in another class for the same attribute is that that character is weak in that class and the point scale is calling attention to its development.

Ponder this. Why is there no section for judging Iris and not just judging a class of Iris. If one attends a dog show there are hundreds of types of dogs. The judges judge each dog by how well it meets the standard for that breed. The classes we create for iris tend to move judges towards this when judging the various classes. The have been only three irises that were not strictly tall bearded that have won the American Dykes. In Britain there are many classes that have won their Dykes medal, including the first Dykes whivh was a Cal-sibe. I suggest that there is this intrinsic difference between the judges in both countries. In England much is done with trials in the garden. I would suggest that Americans do not really know what constitutes a good garden plant but what best fits the class they are judging. I know we give llip service the Garden judging but how many gardens does one see. usually you see collections not plants integrated into a garden. Our mindset is what is the ultimate plant in its class. We ignore the problems that class may have fitting into a real garden.

I was not happy with the term interspecies cross as a description of SPEC-X. When I presented the concept of species cross to the board 20 years ago I tried very hard not to use that term. Unfortunately the secretary used it in summing up the motion in the minutes but that term is not what the board voted on. The original text only implied that there was  more than one iris species in the background and not a first generation cross. The wording was not doubt changed because the original was cumbersome in that it also included the possibility of an iris and another genus, Gladiola whatever. At the time Iris dichotoma was being crossed with Belamcandra. Of course now Belamcandra is considered an iris.

Perhaps it would have been better to name this the micellanious hybrid award and forget the species. Intellectually I thought I was doing the Species enthusiasts a favor by emphazing the contributions of species to hybrids. I had hoped it would encourage more people growing species if only to utilize them in crosses. Sadly i believe the more the species enthusiasts root for a first generation concept of species cross the unintended consequence will be even fewer people working with species.


----- Original Message -----
From: "El Hutchison" <eleanore@mymts.net>
To: iris-species@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:46:36 AM
Subject: RE: [iris-species] Re: SPEC-X

 

Paul, this is what the judges handbook has to say about SPEC-X:
 
"SPEC-X is the class for interspecies crosses.  These hybrids have a mix of species traits creating a new plant.  Any cross involving an iris species as one of the parents and another plant not of that species is a species cross.  Also included in SPEC-X are further hybrids from interspecies crosses.  All of the above crosses are included in the SPEC-X class.  Even when a specific class exists for an interspecies cross, the hybridizer may elect to register his/her iris as SPEC-X if he/she feels it is more "species-like" and not representative of the definition of the specific class."
 
It probably answers your question too, Chuck.
 
It also appears to me that many hybridizers are also AIS judges, Bob, but thanks for somewhat clearing up the confusion about SPEC-X.  I'm going to print off your comments and put them in my judges handbook.
 
El, Ste Anne (near Winnipeg), Manitoba, Canada Z3
 

To: iris-species@yahoogroups.com
From: robertpries@embarqmail.com
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 09:48:04 -0500
Subject: Re: [iris-species] Re: SPEC-X

 

Tom; You have asked some good questions about SPEC-X as a class. Even though I lead the campaign for this class and chaired the committee that presented it to the board, I do not believe many people have a clear understanding of this class. I am interested also in what other judges think and how they consider this class.
I know there has been considerable grumbling among some species enthusiasts that have not been happy with the fact that two bearded crosses won the Medal. There was always an undercurrent of thought that these iris should only be first generation crosses with a species and  that if a plant should qualify for an extablished class it should not go into the SPEC-X. I strongly disagree with these thoughts because the consequences of making the class more restrictive would discourage a great deal of experimentation. One of the reasons why hybridizers bother to grow species is to bring new genes and characters into the gene pool. Presently the established classes have become more and more rigid in their expectations. For example, you can always find the ruler police out to get cultivars that exceed a size limit on one side or the other. Because of this if an SDB does not grow right around 12 inches, it has little chance of winning an award. If it tends toward one side or the other of the size scale chances are it will bloom out of class in some season and get a bad rap. Most all the bearded classes have become very formulaic when it comes to what is considered good. Plants are not judged on whether they make good garden plants, but on how well the fit the set paradigm created in each judges mind. SPEC-X is troubling to many judges because there is no paradigm and they have to think. 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Waters" <irises@telp.com>
To: iris-species@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 2:21:37 PM
Subject: [iris-species] Re: SPEC-X

 

Thanks for the tip, Bill - I had seen the seed exchange page but got the impression it was for 2011.

--- In i*@yahoogroups.com, Bill Chaney <billchaney@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> SO good to hear someone else is working with bearded species! I will let others
> with more experience address your questions, but I wanted to point out that the
> Median Iris Society just posted the first of the seed lots they are offering in
> their new Seed Exchange. Several great species crosses from Cindy Rust. Check
> it out!
>
> Be aware that more seed lots will be added soon, but you can order now! The MIS
> is a great source of information and seed, and check out the other great offers
> they have for the spring, including a chance to buy Paul Black unnamed seedlings
> before they are named and introduced!
>
> Bill
>
> http://www.medianiris.com/got-seeds.shtml
>
> and
>
> http://www.medianiris.com/auction.shtml
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Tom Waters <irises@...>
> To: i*@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, November 22, 2010 6:28:02 AM
> Subject: [iris-species] SPEC-X
>
>
> Greetings all,
>
> I've been acquiring various bearded and aril species to begin hybridizing with.
> Naturally, my thoughts are running ahead to some future time when I may have
> seedlings to be considered for registration and distribution.
>
> When I was last involved in the iris world, the SPEC and SPEC-X classes and
> there respective awards were just getting going. Now that they have been around
> for sometime, I wonder if a consensus has developed around when it is
> appropriate to register a hybrid as SPEC-X, as opposed to another established
> class that it also meets the requirements for.
>
> My understanding is that this is entirely at the registrant's discretion, but I
> would still like to hear everyone's thoughts. As a species enthusiast, how do
> your expectations differ if an iris is registered as SPEC-X rather than, say,
> MTB, AB, etc. Do you have in mind some notion of "distance from species" in
> distinguishing SPEC-X from other classes? If you are a judge, do you view
> award-worthiness differently for SPEC-X cultivars than for those registered in
> the established classes?
>
> Although I am working with bearded and aril irises, the same questions arise
> with respected to the beardless classes as well.
>
> Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
>
> Tom
>



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