Interestingly, Anderson's data on the morphology of versicolor,
virginica and setosa is apparently well-known among statisticians as a
classic example used to demonstrate a method of discriminant analysis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_flower_data_set
On a related note, does anyone grow the wild Japanese triploid
setosa/laevigata hybrids (I. setosa var. hondoensis and var. nasuensis)?
Sean Z
Quoting C*@aol.com:
>
> Well, write it up, dammit! Tell us about Dr. Anderson and his work.
> Not everyone already knows all this stuff. I'm sure everyone is
> enthusiastic about the Encyclopedia, certainly, but it is not the
> only project deserving of support. Take a break and write up
> Anderson. Maybe his stuff is on line? Through Botanicus?
>
> As for the taxonomy of setosa, well that is one part of the setosa
> story, or one part of one setosa story. There is never only one
> possible story to be told about any species, and if we wait until
> the taxonomists are all in agreement, we will be waiting a long time.
>
> As I have written elsewhere, there were interesting folks
> preoccupied with setosa way back. Max was very interested in
> variation in the species which he mistakenly thought was involved in
> development of the japanese irises. The fact that Curtis' made such
> a muddle of the whole-- what shall I call it, the whole
> ensata/kaempferi/laevigata constellation of issues-- did not help
> anyone understand the japanese irises or the asian beardless stuff.
> Max had eastern setosas, sent a bunch of them to Foster, and Foster
> had some others from Sereno Watson at Harvard.
>
> Do all setosas have those nice little seeds like apple seeds?
>
> Cordially,
>
> AMW
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Pries <r*@embarqmail.com>
> To: iris-species <i*@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Fri, Oct 7, 2011 11:02 am
> Subject: Re: [iris-species] I. versicolor 'Murrayana'
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The taxonomy of Setosa is still quite confusing since it would
> appear that most authors have not had the benefit of material from
> all parts of the world. No one author has addressed all the
> boatnical names since Dykes and much has been published since. I
> attempt a consolidation in the Iris Encyclopedia. see
> http://wiki.irises.org/bin/view/Spec/SpecSetosa But I have really
> not had the time to work on this. It is unclear whether the eastern
> botanists and the western botanist have really consulted each others
> work. Chuck you are correct, I meant to say versicolor not virginica.
> Debbie I would love to include your photos in the Iris Encyclopedia.
> If you provide the region where they where photographed I believe we
> can pin them down under a particular variety or form.
> Anner; Edgar Anderson was a much beloved figure who was always
> willing to talk to the public. I met him but once at the annual
> Taxonomy symposium at MoBot back when I was a graduate student.
>
>
>
>
> From: d*@alaska.com
> To: "Chuck Chapman" <i*@aim.com>, i*@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, October 7, 2011 3:04:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [iris-species] I. versicolor 'Murrayana'
>
>
>
> Yes, Chuck is right about the Iris setosa ssp setosa (on the Alaska
> coastal areas ie south of the Alaska Range) have a different
> foliage look than Iris setosa ssp interior (which are north of the
> Alaska Range. Mt. McKinley is in the the Alaska Range.)
>
> The interior plants are taller and the foliage is not as wide as the
> coastal ones. The flowers seem to look alike.
>
> The Alaska Range is a formidable barrier for plants. It is also
> what divides the climate zones here. North ward has a continental
> climate and south of the AK Range has a more coastal influence.
>
> I am fairly sure that I saw setosa in the Soviet (now called
> Russian) Far East in 1989 while traveling with botanists there for
> almost three weeks. I will have to dig out my slides.
>
> As would be expected for such a widely distributed species, there is
> a lot of variation. There are many plants that we share with the
> other side of the Being Ocean (even though you CANNOT see Russia
> from here. Ha ha)
>
> Dr. Murray worked with many Russian Far East plants. I do not
> remember the source, but I am fairly sure that he told me that
> Cornus canadensis in Alaska was more closely related to those in
> Russian than those in eastern Canada. (I was doing research on C.
> canadensis at the time in early 1980's.) It seems that other plants
> that are in common to all three areas followed this pattern. That
> was early in genetic testing, so maybe things have changed. If all
> that still holds up I think it means that it has been a longer time
> since the Alaskan plant populations have been separated from the
> eastern Canadian than the Russian ones.
>
> There are two people that have collected some fantastic color
> variations of I. setosa ssp. interior in the Fairbanks area.
>
> Debbie
> Anchorage, Alaska
>
> Sent from my HTC cell phone.
>
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Chuck Chapman" <i*@aim.com>
> Date: Thu, Oct 6, 2011 7:30 am
> Subject: [iris-species] I. versicolor 'Murrayana'
> To: <i*@yahoogroups.com>
>
>
>
> Versicolor is setosa X virginica. according to information
> current. Not an assumption, a scientific fact. Check this link.
>
> http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/100/2/219.short
>
> Where plant populations are found now is not were plants were found
> at time that original speciation of versicolor occurred.
>
> The articles and exploration of origins of versicolor came from
> were made previous to separation of I hookeri into its separate
> species from I. setosa canadesis. I haven't looked into what was
> used for comparison of genomes, so it may possibly have been hookeri.
>
> In any case, hookeri, I setosa Alasaka coast and I. setosa Alaska
> interior are all distinct populations of setosa population, which
> is also present in Japan. All developed from original setosa, which
> had to relatively close by before differentiation into these
> subspecies.
>
> So if setosa was able to cross with virginica, then hookeri could
> very well cross as well.
>
> There are lots of isolated populations of "robusta" iris found
> throughout Ontario and Quebec in areas quite remote from cultivated
> plants. (Tony Huber did study of these as a paid botanist by
> Canadian government). Robustas are rarely if ever sold in
> nurseries. I have never seen one advertized in any of the general
> Garden catalogues and never seen one in a nursary, (Always visit
> large nursaries where ever I go).
>
> Most of the locations that Tony found robustas in are very remote
> from the Canadian location of virginica (Point Pele and in a few
> isolated areas close to Point Pele)
>
> Never ever heard of a Robuit being planted in wetlands restorations.
> Be very surprised if anyone did this. They are superviswd by
> botanists who are very careful that nativel species are being used.
> If you have any information on Robustas being ussed this waay this
> would you forward the information?
>
> In any case this would not apply to "Murrayana" which was found in 1930's.
>
> Chuck Chapman
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sean A. Zera <z*@umich.edu>
> To: iris-species <i*@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, Oct 6, 2011 9:51 am
> Subject: Re: [iris-species] I. versicolor 'Murrayana'
>
>
>
>
> I believe the current assumption is that versicolor is a hybrid
> between virginica and hookeri (a.k.a. setosa v. canadensis). Not
> counting hookeri, the nearest setosa is in southern Alaska, thousands
> of miles away from versicolor or virginica.
>
> Since virginica and versicolor (and probably Ãrobusta) are mixed up or
> simply not distinguished in the nursery trade, and are planted in
> large numbers in wetland mitigations and restorations, I'd be
> surprised if there aren't lots of populations established outside
> their original ranges.
>
> Sean Z
>
> Quoting Chuck Chapman <i*@aim.com>:
>
>> I just looked at article on Murrayana.
>>
>> Very interesting.
>>
>> A couple of observations. The offspring of Murrayana X vesicolor
>> sound very much like offspring of crosses of virginica x versicolor
>> Except that the "Robusta" plants are usually fertile.
>>
>> Also versicolor were produced from a natural cross of setosa x
>> virginica. And hokerii is very closely related to setosa. Hookeri
>> and versicolor are both native to Newfoundland.
>>
>> I found Cast Ashore (a robusta) in an area that has versicolor but
>> no virginica. so you can have plant relics or hybrid relics in
>> strange locations.
>>
>> Chuck Chapman
>>
>> Sometimes
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Eleanor Hutchison <e*@mymts.net>
>> To: iris-species <i*@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Wed, Oct 5, 2011 10:31 pm
>> Subject: [iris-species] I. versicolor 'Murrayana'
>>
>>
>> Todd, I rec'd this iris today, so looked up a bit more information
>> about it and came across your interesting article at Dave's Garden,
>> "The Story of Iris versicolor 'Murrayana'".
>>
>> I hope I planted it at the correct depth, as it had roots heading
>> up one of the stems.
>>
>> El, Ste Anne, Manitoba, Canada
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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