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Re: 'Swerti' spelling

 

I strongly suspect that what we know as Swertiii (or as cutivar "Iris sweertii) is actually a cross of I.pallida and I. variagata. It was discovered in a garden, not in wild.

I'm preparing an article on an cross of I.pallida kupari and I. variagata regina, that gave a high number of plicata seedlings. All  (100%) had papery pallida spathes.

A  few seedlings that could be called luminata-plicatas.  Almost all seedlings produced seeds, but about 33%  would not produce seeds from attempted crosses, but most of these  did set bee pods.


Here are two pics. One of a plicata seedling and one that resembles luminata-plicata pattern.

Chuck Chapman




-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Pries <robertpries@embarqmail.com>
To: iris-species <iris-species@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 24, 2011 1:37 pm
Subject: Re: [iris-species] 'Swerti' spelling

 
Chuck; Iris swertii is no longer a valid species name since it is considered an Iris pallida. But the variation was described before we had cultivar designations or rules about them. The International code addresses this by saying this is no longer allowed, but names that were created before 1955 are conserved. There are many names in the 1939 Checklist which find themselves in this situation. They were both described as species by someone first and then decribed as a cultivar using the species name.

From: "Chuck Chapman" <i*@aim.com>
To: i*@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 12:32:08 PM
Subject: Re: [iris-species] 'Swerti' spelling

 
As the cultivar called "Iris swertii" is a cultivar it shouldn't have a species name.

so Swertii or Swerti  should be designation.

Chuck Chapman




---- Original Message ----
From: JamieV. <j*@freenet.de>
To: iris-species <i*@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Oct 23, 2011 12:57 pm
Subject: Re: [iris-species] 'Swerti' spelling

 
Interesting!  As latin was typically used, one would expect it to take precedence over other descriptions, which may be only locally understood.  Of course, there was that great confusion created by a certain German author that insisted on keeping his library closed away until after his death, leading to a great deal of synonomy.  Perhaps this pushed the issue.  Frankly, I find latin no more usefull than English, German, French, et al, as it is non-living and despite this fact, still 'evolving'!

Jamie

Am 23.10.2011 18:40, schrieb C*@aol.com:
I believe a Latin diagnosis has only been required since early 1935.
 
AMW 
-----Original Message-----
From: JamieV. j*@freenet.de
To: iris-species i*@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Oct 23, 2011 12:28 pm
Subject: Re: [iris-species] 'Swerti' spelling
 
Tom,

in general, if a latin description of the plant exists, then this spelling would be accepted as correct (precedence), regardless of 'correctness' or not.  If there is no formal description available, which would mean it was never properly published or since lost, then there is no precedence!  As the spelling of his name is apparently incorrect, having spellt it with two 'e's, although the word, which is Dutch, is spelt in general with but one 'e', (swert) and means sword.  This could be the source of the original (mis)spelling.

As to the two 'i's, this was traditional for honourifics, but, as I understand the newest rules of nomencalture, this must not be so.  A single 'i' would suffice (or 'ae' for the feminine).  It gets confusing as, in most European countries, the double 'i' is pronounced ee-ee, not ee-eye, as in English.  A single 'i' would remain ee.  In the end, I find understanding each other of greater importance, although it is too late for most spellings, as the first published takes precedence.

of course, most literature seems to list I. swertii as a synonym of an I. pallida.  Kind of makes the question moot.  Unless it can be defined as a specific clone.  Then we can start from square one.

Are we confused, yet?  Fortunately, I do not grow the plant!

Jamie

Am 23.10.2011 16:45, schrieb Tom Waters: 
Hello all,  A question for those into bearded species and historics. The cultivar 'Swerti' or 'Swertii' - which is the preferred spelling? My understanding of the conventions of Latinizing non-Latin names says it should be 'Swertii', but perhaps there is a tradition of usage behind the other spelling, which seems quite prevalent. Do earliest references favor one over the other? Any comments welcome.  Thanks, Tom    ------------------------------------  Yahoo! Groups Links  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iris-species/  <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional  <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iris-species/join     (Yahoo! ID required)  <*> To change settings via email:     i*@yahoogroups.com      i*@yahoogroups.com  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     i*@yahoogroups.com  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/    


--  Jamie V.  _______________________  KÃln (Cologne) Germany Zone 8 


--  Jamie V.  _______________________  KÃln (Cologne) Germany Zone 8

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