These are both very nice, Chuck!
This has been yet another very interesting
topic.
El, Ste Anne, Manitoba, Canada
From: i*@aim.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 5:21 PM
To: i*@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [iris-species] 'Swerti' spelling
I strongly suspect that what
we know as Swertiii (or as cutivar "Iris sweertii) is actually a cross of
I.pallida and I. variagata. It was discovered in a garden, not in wild.
I'm preparing an article on an cross of I.pallida kupari and I.
variagata regina, that gave a high number of plicata seedlings. All (100%)
had papery pallida spathes.
A few seedlings that could be called
luminata-plicatas. Almost all seedlings produced seeds, but about
33% would not produce seeds from attempted crosses, but most of
these did set bee pods.
Here are two pics. One of a plicata
seedling and one that resembles luminata-plicata pattern.
Chuck
Chapman
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Pries
<robertpries@embarqmail.com> To: iris-species
<iris-species@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Oct 24, 2011 1:37
pm Subject: Re: [iris-species] 'Swerti' spelling
Chuck;
Iris swertii is no longer a valid species name since it is considered an Iris
pallida. But the variation was described before we had cultivar designations or
rules about them. The International code addresses this by saying this is no
longer allowed, but names that were created before 1955 are conserved. There are
many names in the 1939 Checklist which find themselves in this situation. They
were both described as species by someone first and then decribed as a
cultivar using the species name.
From: "Chuck Chapman" <i*@aim.com> To: i*@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Monday, October 24, 2011 12:32:08 PM Subject: Re: [iris-species]
'Swerti' spelling
As the cultivar called
"Iris swertii" is a cultivar it shouldn't have a species name.
so Swertii
or Swerti should be designation.
Chuck
Chapman
----
Original Message ---- From: JamieV. <j*@freenet.de> To:
iris-species <i*@yahoogroups.com> Sent:
Sun, Oct 23, 2011 12:57 pm Subject: Re: [iris-species] 'Swerti'
spelling
Interesting! As latin was typically used, one would expect it to take
precedence over other descriptions, which may be only locally understood.
Of course, there was that great confusion created by a certain German author
that insisted on keeping his library closed away until after his death, leading
to a great deal of synonomy. Perhaps this pushed the issue. Frankly,
I find latin no more usefull than English, German, French, et al, as it is
non-living and despite this fact, still 'evolving'!
Jamie
Am
23.10.2011 18:40, schrieb C*@aol.com:
I believe a Latin diagnosis has only been required since early
1935.
AMW
-----Original Message-----
From: JamieV. j*@freenet.de
To:
iris-species i*@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Sun, Oct 23, 2011 12:28 pm
Subject: Re: [iris-species] 'Swerti'
spelling
Tom, in general, if a latin description of the plant exists, then
this spelling would be accepted as correct (precedence), regardless of
'correctness' or not. If there is no formal description available, which
would mean it was never properly published or since lost, then there is no
precedence! As the spelling of his name is apparently incorrect, having
spellt it with two 'e's, although the word, which is Dutch, is spelt in
general with but one 'e', (swert) and means sword. This could be the
source of the original (mis)spelling. As to the two 'i's, this was
traditional for honourifics, but, as I understand the newest rules of
nomencalture, this must not be so. A single 'i' would suffice (or 'ae'
for the feminine). It gets confusing as, in most European countries, the
double 'i' is pronounced ee-ee, not ee-eye, as in English. A single 'i'
would remain ee. In the end, I find understanding each other of greater
importance, although it is too late for most spellings, as the first published
takes precedence. of course, most literature seems to list I. swertii
as a synonym of an I. pallida. Kind of makes the question moot.
Unless it can be defined as a specific clone. Then we can start from
square one. Are we confused, yet? Fortunately, I do not grow the
plant! Jamie Am 23.10.2011 16:45, schrieb Tom Waters:
Hello all, A question for those into bearded species and historics. The cultivar 'Swerti' or 'Swertii' - which is the preferred spelling? My understanding of the conventions of Latinizing non-Latin names says it should be 'Swertii', but perhaps there is a tradition of usage behind the other spelling, which seems quite prevalent. Do earliest references favor one over the other? Any comments welcome. Thanks, Tom ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iris-species/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/iris-species/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: i*@yahoogroups.com i*@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: i*@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
-- Jamie V. _______________________ KÃln (Cologne) Germany Zone 8
-- Jamie V. _______________________ KÃln (Cologne) Germany Zone 8
|
