Re: Re: REB: blades/fan/stalk formation

Chuck, 

Can rebloom happen, even once, if a rebloom gene is not a part of the irise's DNA?? 

Some of the irises that bloom the first fall don't prove to be regular rebloomers, but many do.? A rather high percent here.? It's enough to?make me really excited about them when they occur.? Two (tried)?last fall (despite the drought) and were marked so I could watch their progress.? One is Star Gate X Matrix and the other is Tara's Choice X Again & Again.? Both crosses should make for strong rebloomers.? 

As a rule, strong rebloomers show the trait almost immediately.? 

If rebloom genes were not responsible in some way, then all irises, including the diehard oncers, could bloom the first fall?? 

Another characteristic that seems to be connected to rebloom--the ability to miss the first spring but bloom that summer.? Around here, it's not uncommon for a rhizome to still be immature at bloom time (first spring,) but then bloom a month or two later.? My understanding of genes would say that a gene must be in place for this to happen???Otherwise all irises could and would do this?? 

Se

I have also found that first year bloom in fall doesn't mean it is a rebloomer. It means something, but I don't know what.?
Betty/zone6/KY


-----Original Message-----
From: irischapman@aim.com
To: iris@hort.net
Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 8:16 pm
Subject: [iris] Re: REB: blades/fan/stalk formation


I havn't done this either. I would think that fresh and dead leaves make the total. In large clumps it will be more difficult.?
?
I wouldn't use seedling bloom as a true indicator, but would think that the lower the number of leaves for initial bloom, the more likely it will be a rebloomer. I have also found that first year bloom in fall doesn't mean it is a rebloomer. It means something, but I don't know what.?
?
I suspect that fast growth, such as with a new seedling, will prevent someof the bloom inhibitors from working. This is one theory I'm looking at. That is, the supper fast growth , as with forever Blue, may mean that the lateral repression chemicals don't repesses bloom in incrases as increses grow too fast to absorb chemicals. One theory any way. As vernalization causes a permant repression of the bloom repression gene (a double negative makes a positive that is bloom can now proceed), there needs to be some way for the plant to stop out of season bloom on increases.?
?
I hope this all makes some sort of sense.?
?
Bud set is in the late summer. I'm not sure what the trigger for this is, but plants go into winter with bud already set, waiting forwhat ever triggers it needs , such as vernalization .?
?
Chuck Chapman?
?
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:40:20 -0400?
From: Linda Mann <lmann@lock-net.com>?
Subject: [iris] REB: blades/fan/stalk formation?
?
Chuck, I need more input on how to count the number of leaf blades in?
fans that produce bloomstalks.?
?
No stalks forming on IMM yet.?
?
I just checked the potted plants that have visible stalks. Of the 6, 4?
are storebought cultivars from last year and the year before [yes, Bob?
Pries, I can't grow storebought cultivars in the ground here, but <can>?
grow them in pots where they can be dragged indoors to get away from the?
normal climate, using Betty's dirty perlite recipe.;-( But <not> IMM -?
dies every time. ]?
?
Of these, leaf blades/fan w stalk were: 3 (plus 4 shriveled up dead?
blades), 5 (+ 2 dead), 3 (+ 2 dead), and 4(+2 dead). Only one of these?
one was registered & introduced as a rebloomer.?
?
2 were seedlings, 3 leaf blades each/stalked fan, no dead leaf blades?
visible, but very crowded with foliage of other fans on the same mother?
rhizome, so there may be some dead leaves hidden. These were rebloom?
seedlings dug year before last to bring indoors for late fall/winter?
bloom that I never got around to putting back in the ground.?
?
Which brings up another issue. Mother rhizomes on many/most [no data,?
will try to take notes this year] of the seedlings from IMM and HOM do?
<not> die after sending up a bloomstalk. Some keep sending up fans for?
another generation or more (i.e., active grandmother rhizomes). I?
wonder if this is part of why IMM is so skimpy with stalks here compared?
to the amount of foliage produced in a clump. i.e., using energy?
produced by other fans, which then don't have enough energy to make buds.?
?
In any case, if the buds for bloomstalk formation are set in the rhizome?
? 6 to 8 weeks <before> bloom (and before any hint of a stalk is visible?
or can be felt), what do you want me to count??
?
I grow everything in clumps (one of my goals is a good garden iris that?
will continue to grow and bloom without having to be re-set), thin?
regularly to take excess to club sales.?
?
So I can't count and keep track of all the leaves in a clump 8 weeks?
before I <think> they are supposed to bloom, then check them all to see?
whether or not they did.?
?
I can mark a handful of fans of one of the IMM clumps, count the leaf?
blades every so often and see which ones bloom.?
?
But the more I think about it, with the extra fans growing on the same?
rhizome, maybe the ratio of the total number of leaf blades in the?
entire interconnected clump to stalk production would be more meaningful.?
?
?? thoughts? suggestions??
- --?
Linda Mann east Tennessee USA zone 7/8?
East Tennessee Iris Society <http://www.DiscoverET.org/etis>?
Region 7, Kentucky-Tennessee <http://www.aisregion7.org>?
American Iris Society web site <http://www.irises.org>?
talk archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-talk/>?
photos archives: <http://www.hort.net/lists/iris-photos/>?
online R&I <http://www.irisregister.com>?
?
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