Re: CULT: Leaf Removal & Soft Rot

" High pH" is a confusing term for me. Bill explains what side of the fence
he is sitin on. >Higher pH beds (pH 10 and up)<. High pH to me could be high
in acid or high in basic. Is it because of all the pH charts I have seen
Basic is at the top and Acid at the bottom?
I have no chemistry background. I do have years of pH experience with
running a lithographic printing press and having aquariums. Both require a
practical knowledge of pH.

I have never tested my soil. What ever I am doing works pretty good.
" If it ain't broke don't try to fix it"

Mike Greenfield
SW Ohio Zone 5b
----- Original Message -----
From: <Oneofcultivars@aol.com>
To: <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: [iris] CULT: Leaf Removal & Soft Rot


> In a message dated 2/3/2003 12:18:21 PM Central Standard Time,
> jbruce1@cinci.rr.com writes:
>
>
> > This is interesting, but some factor must be missing,  either
> > in my data or in the university study.
> >
> > The soil pH at my nursery is 5.0 down to 4.3 in spots.
> > Iris flourish there, as does Erwinia. Soft rot with that distinctive
smell
> > at any rate. Is there another bacteria that causes soft rot that
> > makes that same smell? When I say flourish, I mean grow very well,
> > increase and bloom. Our pH measurements have been done twice
> > by sending samples to Ohio State University Ag Extension for analysis
> > as well as out own pH meter. Could the pH requirement you cite
> > be dependant on soil content and type?
> >
> > Always wondering about stuff.
> >
>
> We have great commonality with the wonderin'. Too, I'm mostly parroting
> information gleaned from other sources in this instance though experience
> here tends to support the pH information. Its pretty common to find
> differences between laboratory data and the circumstances we actually
> encounter under field conditions. I usually chalk the differences up to
the
> uncontrolled variables encountered in the field.
>
> You probably already know that soil pH is a moving, ever changing target
and
> is finite only at a given point in time. Each time anything is added with
a
> different pH it changes the soils pH, e.g., water, fertilizer, compost.
Each
> time anything is taken away it also changes, e.g., leeching, water or soil
> nutrients used by the plant or by ongoing composting of organic matter in
the
> soil. Pretty much just routine chemical reactions are going on in the soil
> all the time. Ultimately, native soil will revert back to it's original
> native pH level unless some action is taken. It is also reasonable to
expect
> rather wide variations in the pH levels of the individual samplings that
> constitute the final soil sample that one might collect for analysis.
> Measuring devices that indicate pH (meters and paper) do much here to
> alleviate persistent wonderin'. Interestingly, pH levels often vary
> significantly in the immediate area of live root mass filaments from that
of
> the surrounding native soil. Given the opening of this paragraph this is
not
> unexpected.
>
> Cooley's I believe suggests a neutral to slightly higher pH. Sutton has
> stated they are growing in about 7.1. Other posters to this list have
grown
> in higher pH levels. I suspect many, like yourself are growing in much
lower
> pH levels. Here, I've made some effort (though far from controlled
research)
> to grow/evaluate growth rates at different pH levels and observe
propensity
> for rot to occur in those same beds. Maximum (18x) increase of any plant
here
> was achieved by Keppel's Local Color. It was grown in a soil pH that
varied
> between 7.8 and 8.1. I have however, observed rot in this particular bed.
I
> also let rot run its course as it was encountered. I have yet to totally
lose
> any of the 30 different plants growing in it. An adjacent bed containing a
> different 25 plants growing in pH levels between 6.5 and 7.2 has had some
> total losses. Higher pH beds (pH 10 and up) have never been observed as
> having any rot. I would like to say this was planned. It wasn't. Just
> observed. The high pH levels resulted from using burn piles to raise soil
> nutrient levels with higher pH being the result.
>
> I do not know if another bacteria produces the characteristic smell of
> Erwinia c. I do not personally think God is mean so maybe not. But, He
does
> have a sense of humor and there are other Erwinia stains. Erwinia c. is
> present in soils world wide.
>
> I would think it both possible and probable that soil content and type can
be
> contributing factors-considering that we are measuring average pH not the
pH
> of individual soil particles. Indeed, we might even view each individual
soil
> particle as its own little micro world either neutral, hostile of
comforting
> to Erwinia c. I have mentally speculated that nitrogen application/soft
rot
> correlation reported by iris people are actually nitrogen application/pH
> micro world changes/soft rot correlation.
>
> Those missing factors? Maybe moisture levels, temperature and/or
ultraviolet
> light saturation?
>
> Smiles and wonderin' (mental speculation to those without an interpreter),
> Bill Burleson 7a/b
> Old South Iris Society
>
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