Re: HYB: genetics - line & speckle
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: HYB: genetics - line & speckle
  • From: C* C* <i*@aim.com>
  • Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 12:58:28 -0500 (EST)
Recessive genes in heterozygous mix (that is  less then full
complement, which is four in TB iris) can remain hidden until expressed
in a homozygous mix, that is all the same.

A dominant gene is always expressed. So  it can't be hidden anywhere.
If it is there, it shows. A recessive of one type ie; plicata, crossed
to same recessive type, will always always have the full set of that
recessive gene in children. No further analysis needed. Phenotype (what
you see) is  exactly same as genotype (genes of that trait present)

The solid  coloured plicatas  are a result of a  a plicata having two
Ae genes present, or more. Or so it would appear, based on best
interpretation of data at this time.  So one  dose of Ae from one
plicata parent, and one dose from the other parent.  With two dosages
of Ae,, the removal of anthocyanin that is effect from plicata set of
alleles, is masked by an overlay of pigment, over patern. these solid
coloured plicatas are always a very dark colour. And they can
occasionally have a point mutation in flowers and show underlying
plicata pattern. So plicata genes are there and show if  one dosage of
Ae is absent in a point mutation. So not one plicata allele replaced
with the  solid coloured plicata allele Pl.

This mix of Ae and any set of genes removing anthocyanin show clearly
that normal repression of anthocyanin does not occur.

Cross a blue with a dominant white, and you get a mix of half blue and
half white. (in most cases.)  Cross a dominant white with a purple
aphylla  (can be up to four dosages of Ae) and all seedlings are
purple. Cross one of these seedlings to another dominant white and
again you usually get all purple.  But next generation gets you back to
half and half. So it seems that  you need two dosages of "I" to remove
one dosage of Ae.  But only one dosage of "I" to remove anthocyanin if
no Ae genes involved.

Chuck Chapman

-----Original Message-----
From: Betty Wilkerson <autmirislvr@aol.com>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Sat, Feb 18, 2012 8:37 am
Subject: Re: [iris] HYB: genetics - line & speckle

Chuck, before I confuse my own issue, and I will, I'd like to say that
I'd like a copy of the article, too.  (see email below)


<<I have an unpublished article on solid coloured flowers from
plicata crosses that I can send to anyone who requests it. That is
flowers with four plicata genes, yet are solid coloured.>>


Since self is dominant over plicata, why wouldn't it be expected that a
cross of plicatas could contain selfs if there are any selfs in the
linage?  (anywhere)  Not quite sure how one determines that an iris
truly has four plicata genes without a lab test.

Much as I fought against breeding plicatas, it's happened almost by
default.  Still looking for that perfect (for me) red on yellow
rebloomer.


Betty Wilkerson
Zone 6 KY
autmirislvr@aol.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Mann <lmann@lock-net.com>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Fri, Feb 17, 2012 10:57 am
Subject: [iris] HYB: genetics - line & speckle


I hope I don't alienate both Waltah and Chuck by copy this here from
FB,
but I want to get it into the archives so I can find the info when I
forget it!

Walter Moores said: <LINE AND SPECKLE - 'Cinnamon Sun' started the ball
rolling on this pattern. It was introduced by Hamner in 1993, and Ghio
and Duncan carried the pattern to new heights. I don't have a pic for
fear of copyright infringement and don't want to go to jail for
stealing
one. I hope Chuck Chapman can explain this pattern which is not
plicata.
If you have pics to add to the discussion, please post them.>

And Chuck Chapman replied: <While many people say that this pattern is
not plicata, I probably stand alone in saying that it is. Keppel and
Ghio are among many who disagree with me. Ring Around Rosie is a
plicata. I have a cross with Ring Around Rosie that gave all plicatas.
Spiced Lemon, a cross of Dream of Gold X Cinnamon Sun is a very
traditional plicata, The kickers are two genes interacting. One of
these
is the Ae (enhanced anthocyanin) gene which is the gene from aphylla
which gives solid clumps of anthocyanin in the vacuole instead of
having
anthocyanin just in dissolved form (see my article in AIS Bulletin a
few
years back) This gene is a dominant. The dominant reduction of
anthocyanin gene "I" which can turn a blue iris into a white iris, is
only partially dominant with the Ae gene. Thus you have interactions.

So various combinations give odd results.Such as removing anthocyain
from rims and most of centre of falls in plicatas inclusion pattern..
Even more so when you combine this with plicata which changes density
of
plicata distribution. There are inclusion and exclusion genes working
with plicata. You don't have anthocyanin in center of petals in classic
plicata, this is "exclusion" Sometimes you do, such as with luminata
and
luminata-plicata. This is inclusion of pattern in center of petals. So
when you have inclusion of plicata parent in center of petals combined
with Ae and a couple of dosages of "I" you get lines and speckles.
Anthocyanin is removed from rims and almost all from center of the falls

Crossing a line and speckles to a plicata gives you an odd mix of
patterns, resulting from the recombinations of Ae and "I" genes. Some
without any anthocyanin and some solid coloured flowers, which really
messes up expected patterns found in plicata crosses without these
factors. I have an unpublished article on solid coloured flowers from
plicata crosses that I can send to anyone who requests it. That is
flowers with four plicata genes, yet are solid coloured.>

Thanks Chuck (and Walter for asking).

Chuck, I'd like to see a copy of your article.  Not sure I'm ready to
jump into plicatas, but am close.

Linda Mann east TN USA zone 7

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