RE: Re: HYB: another terminology question
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: RE: Re: HYB: another terminology question
  • From: C* C* <i*@aim.com>
  • Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2013 13:50:54 -0500 (EST)
This cross I can believe. Basically a shading difference between amounts of anthrocyanin in the two crosses. Could easily be a result of a cellular ph difference controlled by extra-nuclear genes. Amethyst Winter , is an amethyst violet, and Purple Piroquette is a deep purple.
Not the presence of one pigment (eg lycopene) in one cross and completely absent in the other. A factor controlled by nuclear genes. 

Chuck Chapman



-----Original Message-----
From: Francelle Edwards <fjmjedwards@q.com>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 1:37 pm
Subject: RE: [iris] Re: HYB: another terminology question
I've had experiences like that also, Betty. I didn't keep good records ten years ago. My thinking was; why keep records on anything not good enough to keep. I made a memorable recprical cross between Amethyst Winter and Purple 
Pirouette and planted them side by side in two twenty foot rows.  The
differences between them were striking. One was mostly copies of Amethyst Winter. The other consisted of blue and purple blends with a lot of brown on the hafts. I thought they were ugly. I can understand though that there 
was no carotine in either.
Francelle

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-iris@hort.net [o*@hort.net] On Behalf Of Betty 
Wilkerson
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2013 1:34 PM
To: iris@hort.net
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: another terminology question

The first year I was making crosses I did a cross between Peach Spot and
Highland Chief and also did the reverse. 'Peach Spot' is a white iris with a peach spot on the fall. Highland Chief is a beautiful red on yellow/cream 
plicata from Gibson.  Approximately, 30 each way.

All 25+ of the PS X HC were approximately 18 inches tall with four big
blooms.  (Big Bertha even bloomed on fall.)  They all looked alike.
They could have been clones from the same rhizome.  But, they weren't.
They were siblings.

The ones with 'Highland Chief' as pod parent produced a wide variety of
seedlings, all tall and multi branched, some with triple teminals. A couple were peach selfs. One was a bright orange self. Several had white falls with yellow standards and fall rings. It was one of the most educational 
and intriguing crosses I've ever made.
They definitely did not look like siblings. There were no characteristics in common. The one batch was VERY ugly, while the others were all goreous. 

How come if they are siblings?


Betty Wilkerson
Zone 6 KY
autmirislvr@aol.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Chapman <irischapman@aim.com>
To: iris <iris@hort.net>
Sent: Sat, Feb 23, 2013 10:56 am
Subject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: another terminology question
For sibling cross, it wouldn't make any difference when cross was made or 
which parent was pod or which pollen.Why pod and pollen parent wouldn't
matter  is because the genes controlling  major factors of colour and
pattern are not located in plastids or mitochondria. As to getting plant 
characteristics it would play a role. They are both sibs.
So a sib cross to pull out  or evaluate recessives will still work.But
 the reverse cross do have different genetics in terms of extra-nuclear
 genes,  but are siblings.Chuck Chapman-----Original Message-----From:
Betty Wilkerson <autmirislvr@aol.com>To: iris <iris@hort.net>Sent: Sat, Feb 
23, 2013 11:13 amSubject: Re: [iris] Re: HYB: another terminology
questionSiblings are any seedlings that come from the same cross.
Example:'Treasured' X 'Renown'. Treasured is the pod parent and Renown is thepollen parent.A reverse cross would be 'Renown' X 'Treasure'. It is not 
the same.Technically . . . if Linda made the same cross five years later
theywould be siblings. They are still the same cross.Each seedlings in a 
pod is different, even if it can not be seen withthe naked eye.  So, the
fact that the seedlings in Linda's cross wouldlook different than the ones in my cross would be expected, even thoughthey would still (most) look like 
siblings.Does this help?Betty WilkersonZone 6
KYautmirislvr@aol.com-----Original Message-----From:
Shaub Dunkley <miscaccts@bellsouth.net>To: iris <iris@hort.net>Sent:
Fri, Feb 22, 2013 5:21 pmSubject: [iris] Re: HYB: another terminology
questionHey group -Hope this formats correctly - was unclear about how to 
postto the list.  I've lurked for some time on a learning curve.
Long curveto go but gotta stumble in somewhere.It would seem being able
todistinguish between pod sibling and sibling separated by time has
valueworth conserving. Fraternal twins have less chance of
beingstep-sibling. Across time, particularly across years, there is
morechance that records might have got mixed up, or field labels got mixedup 
and Daddy Joe then is not Daddy Joe now, etc. (same for Mom).
Mightnot a discriminating (subsequent) hybridizer want to utilize
siblingknown to be from within the same pod if he wanted to critically
improvechances of breeding within a certain gene pool?I'm still figuring
outto sleuth cross information in the registry but it is apparent
somehybridizers use numbering systems that are fairly transparent as to
whoare pod sibling and who are across-time sibling.
Gold stars to them.BTW- are there better terms than pod siblings and
across-timesiblings?Shaub DunkleyAsheville, North Carolina
Z6b-----OriginalMessage----- From: Tom Waters <irises@telp.com> To:
iris<iris@hort.net> Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2013 9:11 am Subject: [iris]
HYB:another terminology questionWhile we're at it, I'm interested in
howpeople understand the term "sibling". I've seen it sometimes
apparentlyrestricted to two irises that came from the same pod of seed, or atleast the product of the cross of two plants made by the samehybridizer in 
the same year. It seems to me that since the two parentsare clones, any
irises with the same parentage are siblings, even ifthe crosses that
produced them were made many years or miles apart bydifferent people. My own 
brother and sisters, for example, are no lessmy brother and sisters for
having been gestated separately at differenttimes. ;) Tom Waters Telperion 
Oasis ~ www.telp.com/irises Cuyamungue,New Mexico, USA (zone 6)
----------------------------------------From:"Tom Waters"
<irises@telp.com>Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013
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