OT: The Iris Lists

From: John I Jones <jijones@ix.netcom.com>

I would like to add some additional perspective to the discussions about lists.

Just to repeat, I never intended that iris-talk compete with Iris-L.  I know
that some may think that iris-talk will be more "controlled" since I am the
list owner of iris-talk. I do not intend it to be that way.  From the
beginning I have said that I wanted the policies, and environment for
iris-talk to be the same as they were for Iris-L. I guess time will tell. The
true character of a list comes from the people that post to it and ask
questions of others on it.

It is true that a list run on Onelist is a different environment than one in a
LISTSERV environment. There are plusses and minuses to both. Yes, on Onelist
you may be subjected to a commercial advertisement at the bottom of a message.
It does not seem to me to be too intrusive *yet*. If it gets obnoxious, trust
me,  I will be the first in line trying to find a new venue.  The subscribers
agreement is certainly foreboding, but boiled down to its real content, it
says if you don't do anything illegal you don't have anything to worry about.
(That is not a legal opinion, just a personal one).  It is not so different
than most of the license agreements we all agree to just to use the software
we do. I am not sure why I am writing all this. You all are reading this,
which means that you have already accepted the terms of the agreement.  Those
that are put off by it aren't getting this message...  :>))

On the other hand there are aspects about Onelist that I think are better for
us. For one thing, on a LISTSERV list, anyone can subscribe to an open list
(such as Iris-L was), issue a "Review" command to the Listserver, and get all
our names and email addresses. They could then use the list of addresses in
whatever way they wanted. You can't do that on Onelist. Only the list owner
has access to that information, and of course Onelist administration - but
that same subscribers agreement that is so foreboding is the same one protects
that specific information about you and says they won't divulge the
information except with your permission. Your privacy, in some senses, better
protected under Onelist. It is not clear to me that Onelist is any more, or
any less, public than Iris-L on RT66 was.

Another very important reason, especially for the list owner, is that with
Onelist, the listener does not have to deal with the endless "Returned Mail"
notifications that occur in the LISTSERV environment.  In the short time that
I was sending out the messages to the "manual" Iris-L list, I must have gotten
over a 1000 Returned or Undeliverable mail notices. Addresses that had been
working for days would suddenly not work, then mysteriously start working
again. For every message I sent out I got 3 to 6 error notifications. Granted,
with an appropriate filter set, I could probably have diverted them off into
some other file, and dealt with them at a later date. But sooner or later you
have to do something with them. I don't know how Tom managed that for 2 1/2
years.

I am willing to go with what ever people want. If you all want someone else to
be listener, that is OK with me. *It really is.* I will gladly turn over the
reins to anyone you all want.  We can figure out how to do that. If you want
the list served by a LISTSERV or MAJORDOMO (another list engine) service
provider, I am open for suggestions. I know of several others that we could
use. I just can't step up to the monthly charge. Maybe we could find a
corporate sponsor (or 3) that would be willing to pay for the service for us.
(Of course that has it's pluses and minuses too.)

So what does the community think??

John                     | "There be dragons here"
                         |  Annotation used by ancient cartographers
                         |  to indicate the edge of the known world.

John Jones, jijones@ix.netcom.com
Fremont, California, USA, Earth, USDA zone 8/9 (coastal, bay) 
Max high 95F/35C, Min Low 28F/-2C average 10 days each
Heavy clay base for my raised beds.
There are currently 83 Iris pictures on my Website. Visit me at:
http://members.home.net/jijones

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