Re: HYB: TB: question - making wider falls/hafts etc?
- Subject: Re: HYB: TB: question - making wider falls/hafts etc?
- From: n*@charter.net
- Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 16:09:13 -0000
--- In iris-talk@y..., Linda Mann <lmann@i...> wrote:
> How is petal width inherited? If you cross two irises with wide
falls & hafts, do you always get wide falls? ...Horizontal crossed
with more traditional waterfall shape seems to give waterfall
shape... What about flower size? ... It seems that we haven't had
much discussion/generalization of how some of these traits other than
color patterns and rebloom are usually inherited...Also, how about
other traits like beard size, open vs closed standards, ruffling,
stalk height?
I want to second this suggestion, Linda. I would find such a
discussion most helpful.
A few comments come to mind. Tell, in his mid-fifties catalogs,
commented much on Dominion ancestry as contributing to width. There
were some conspicuously wider-than-their-contemporary varieties on
the market as modern irises developed. Gloriole and Mexico were
outstanding examples. Both figure prominantly in later pedigrees for
wide-falled introductions. I suspect the trait or traits involved
were recessive, as narrow hafts were notoriously persisting.
The mention of Keppel's catalog calls to mind Braggadocio and Broad
Shoulders, two recent-to-new introductions. Both appear to be
unusually wide in the hafts. Again, it looks as if the width were
both recessive, and progressively accumulating as generations have
gone forward.
My own experience with open standards is that like narrow falls, or
hang-dog ("waterfall" to be nice) falls, they are killers in the
seedling rows. The trait gets worse. There was another trait of
standards that was strong in Tell's pink line and its derivitives--
the standards tended to be crumpled. Pink Formal showed this
strongly, and it is present in grandparent W. R. Dykes as well. It
was a trait hard to escape. No matter how beautiful the fall's form,
the standards curled or twisted inward in a less than perfectly
formed manner.
On how the traits you mention develop, I can think of nothing more
instuctive than to look at pictures of Hall line (and I include early
Fay t-beardeds before the Snow Flurry/New Snow/pallida infusion
changed the character)as it develops, gets fuller, wider, better
formed, better substanced, etc. It seems the sorting out of the
traits simply took reselect after reselect, breeding best to best,
generation after generation. The marvel was, that outcrosses from
the line, thanks to David Hall's patient sorting, produced quantum
jumps when used with pinks, etc. from other, parallel lines. Our
modern pinks are a very far cry from the first ones, and the
outcrosses to whites and blues is not the sole reason.
This thread could prove very interesting I believe.
Neil Mogensen zone 7a, western NC
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