Re: OT BIO: Seana
<<<<<<<Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:47:28 -0600
From: "Char" <Cholte@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [iris] OT BIO: Seana
Hi Seans,
Welcome.
Where do you live? Area of the country.
Char, New Berlin (near Milwaukee) WI>>>>>>
We're in Colorado - about 30 miles out from Denver. Zone 4-5 depending on the winter...
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seana - eriknseana@att.net
http://www.2aces.com/metronehomesch
ool
A Non-Directed Home School Support
Group for people in NE Metro
Denver!
>
> iris DIGEST Sunday, March 28 2004 Volume 01 : Number 091
>
>
>
> In this issue:
>
> [iris] OT BIO: Seana
> Re: [iris] OT BIO: Seana
> Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
> [iris] Medians: KEEPER & BOURGEOUIS
> Re: [iris] Medians: KEEPER & BOURGEOUIS
> Re: [iris] Versicolor
> Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
> Re: [iris] Versicolor
> [iris] RE; KEEPER
> Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
> [iris] OT: Bulletin sighting
> Re: [iris] Re: Guest bed visitors (photos)
> Re: [iris] OT BIO: Seana
> Re: [iris] Medians: KEEPER & BOURGEOUIS
> Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
> Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
> Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
> Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
> Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
> [iris] Re: List of names
> [iris] Re: AIS: Judges work load, etc
> [iris] RE: Re: AIS: Judges work load, etc
> Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
> Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, "throwing out 'no good'"
> Re: [iris] AIS: Better than anything else
> Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
> Re: [iris] Medians: KEEPER & BOURGEOUIS
> [iris] Dykes Medal Winners
> [iris] FW: judging iris
> Re: [iris] Dykes Medal Winners
> [iris] HYB: Getting ahead of the "big guys"
> Re: [iris] Dykes Medal Winners
> Re: [iris] HYB: Getting ahead of the "big guys"
> Re: [iris] FW: judging iris
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:45:31 +0000
> From: eriknseana@att.net
> Subject: [iris] OT BIO: Seana
>
> Hello,
>
> I just joined the list. I'll probably end up mostly lurking and soaking up all
> of your iris wisdom. I home school our four children and can end up short on
> time - so you won't probably see me posting a lot but I'll be here reading as I
> can.
>
> My mom and I have been growing Iris for all of my life and most of hers. When I
> was very young, we used to look for the Schriener's and Cooley's Iris catalogs
> to come in the mail and pour over them for weeks after they arrived. We
> discovered how easy hybridizing can be, a year or two ago and we have the seeds
> from the crosses we made this last summer and a couple bee pods. We moved this
> fall so we didn't want to plant anything before we were settled. We're storing
> the seeds in the fridge waiting until we have space prepared for them!
>
> I think I'll go join the Iris Photo list now - like I need "time sucking thing"
> to do online!
>
>
> Seana (Pronounced Shawna)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 10:17:38 -0800
> From: Randy Squires <randysiris@juno.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] OT BIO: Seana
>
> Hi Seana,
> Welcome, most of us do a lot more reading and learning than posting.
> I hope you took some of your plants with you when you moved last fall.
> Your Mother and you must have had a nice collection.
> I hope you get those seeds started someday, it'll be fun to see what they
> look like.
> If you join Iris-Photos, at least it will get you through until spring
> when the flowers start blooming.
> Welcome again,
> Randy Squires z10 North Hills, CA
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:47:16 EST
> From: RYFigge@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
>
> Neil has really hit on the crucial point -- my judges' HAndbook is too far
> for me to reach to check on this, but I think there is the idea or rule in it
> - -- or else it was pounded into my head in early judges training ---THAT you
> do
> not introduce something unless it is superior to what has already been
> introduced that is similar. It is very difficult, I am sure, (although I have
> never
> hybridized, I was a critical editor for my husband) to look at your "child"
> with a jaudiced eye, whether it be a precious seedling or word/phrase in a
> literary/scientific article.
> I have judged in shows where hybridizers brought armloads of irises --
> depending on the judges to decide what was "good" because they themselves did
> not
> know how to decide - never had judges training!. Also, one can certainly take
> the training, which would help in hybridizing, without becoming a judge..
> Rosalie nr Baltimore,MD. USA zone 7 - still trying to be Summer without Spring!
> ryfigge@aol.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:06:13 EST
> From: Ranchiris@aol.com
> Subject: [iris] Medians: KEEPER & BOURGEOUIS
>
> I would appreciate any information on KEEPER and BOURGEOUIS that anyone out
> there can provide.
> Thanks,
> Kathy Chilton
> Tucson, AZ
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:16:52 EST
> From: GormleyGreenery@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [iris] Medians: KEEPER & BOURGEOUIS
>
> In a message dated 3/27/2004 1:07:49 PM Central Standard Time,
> Ranchiris@aol.com writes:
> would appreciate any information on KEEPER and BOURGEOUIS that anyone out
> there can provide.
>
> Kathy, (excuse the commercial!) you need the new Median Checklist through
> 2002!!
>
> BOURGEOIS (Paul Black, R. 2002). Sdlg. H238BB. SDB, 14" (36 cm), M. S. claret
> purple; style arms purple, paler edges; F. lighter claret purple, small plum
> spot around beard and small blue flash at end of beard, dark navy veins;
> beards violet and brown; pronounced spicy fragrance. Snugglebug X Buddy Boy.
> Mid-America 2003.
>
> Nothing on Keeper-only IT'S A KEEPER
> IT'S A KEEPER (Ken Kremer, R. 2001). SDB, 8" (21 cm), E. S. white, shaded
> pale yellow gold; style arms white and lavender; F. gold, white trim; beards
> blue
> lavender, large and bushy. Leprechaun's Delight X Cry Baby.
>
> Rita Gormley
> Median Iris Society Membership Chair, Editor and keeper of the Checklist
> Gormley Greenery
> Cedar Hill, MO
> AIS Region 18, Zone 5
> www.gormleygreenery.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:33:14 -0800
> From: "Hensler" <hensler@povn.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] Versicolor
>
> Hi Anita,
>
> Versicolors should be able to go into the pond any time you're past the
> point of it freezing over for long periods and they're large enough to
> handle easily. In a pot, they can be a small as 5-6" tall. Good to at least
> zone 3, they do well in average garden soil with average water so are also a
> good choice for mixed plantings.
>
> We're having typical spring weather with sun and 50 degrees, hail, rain, and
> this morning.... snow. We're short on water during the summer so I've been
> transplanting versicolors to plastic lined beds for the past week. :-)
>
> Christy
>
> Skip & Christy Hensler
> THE ROCK GARDEN
> Newport, WA zone4b
> http://www.povn.com/rock/
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anita Moran" <avmoran1@earthlink.net>
>
>
> > I have about 10 Versicolor seedlings that survived winter
> > Is it too early to put them in the pond?
> > They are about 3 to 5 "
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:33:59 -0700
> From: "Patrick Orr" <irisdude@msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
>
> Wait a minute! Hold the train!!!
>
> What???!
>
> I have always been taught and have heard it said that your aim is to introduce
> something better than both its parents...and now you are telling me that I
> have to get something better than anything similar to it that is out
> there????!!!
>
> lol
>
> I feel like giving up already...
>
> I thought it is going to be hard enough to get something that is better than
> just both its parents.
>
> But seriously though...it makes sense. As hard as it is to do, it would be
> nice to say something you introduce is better than anything else out there.
>
> Just not sure it will ever happen.
>
> Patrick Orr
> Phoenix, AZ zone 9
> USA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: RYFigge@aol.com
> To: iris@hort.net ; neilm@charter.net
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
>
>
> Neil has really hit on the crucial point -- my judges' HAndbook is too far
> for me to reach to check on this, but I think there is the idea or rule in
> it
> -- or else it was pounded into my head in early judges training ---THAT you
> do
> not introduce something unless it is superior to what has already been
> introduced that is similar.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:46:57 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
> From: Anita Moran <avmoran1@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [iris] Versicolor
>
> Thanks Christy
> It's due to be 70 here then back to 50's but don't see any freeze
>
> :)
> Anita
>
>
> Anita Moran
> USDA Zone 6b
> Maryland
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:18:52 EST
> From: GormleyGreenery@aol.com
> Subject: [iris] RE; KEEPER
>
> I would appreciate any information on KEEPER and BOURGEOUIS that anyone out
> there can provide.
> Thanks,
> Kathy Chilton
>
> Found it, thanks to a good knowledgeable friend:
>
> KEEPER (Jim & Vicki Craig R. 2003) BB, 25" M.; S. white edged light blue;
> style arms light blue; F. White.....
> see 2003 AIS R&I for complete info
>
> Rita Gormley
> Gormley Greenery
> Cedar Hill, MO
> AIS Region 18, Zone 5
> www.gormleygreenery.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:19:04 -0500
> From: "John Bruce" <jbruce1@cinci.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
>
> It does sort of make sense, but it doesnt account for other things happening
> in other hybridizers
> gardens in a concurrent time period. And as difficult as it is to get
> something really "worthy" of
> introductions, it would certainly place a huge dent in the large and
> mid-size commercail growers.
> After all, Shcreiner's and Cooley's usually account for 30 TB intros or so
> each year. Then you have
> Sutton's, Ghio, Keppel, Mid America and a few others usually with 10 or
> more. Glossy catalogs
> need intros to help foot the bills, and baby always needs a new pair of
> shoes <G> It may be an
> ideal goal, but you are right--unlikely.
>
> John Bruce
> z5, southern OH
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrick Orr" <irisdude@msn.com>
>
> >
> > But seriously though...it makes sense. As hard as it is to do, it would
> be
> > nice to say something you introduce is better than anything else out
> there.
> >
> > Just not sure it will ever happen.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:01:08 -0800
> From: "Hensler" <hensler@povn.com>
> Subject: [iris] OT: Bulletin sighting
>
> The April Bulletin arrived in today's mail. :-)
>
> Christy
>
> Skip & Christy Hensler
> THE ROCK GARDEN
> Newport, WA
> http://www.povn.com/rock/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:16:00 -0600
> From: "Donald Eaves" <donald@eastland.net>
> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: Guest bed visitors (photos)
>
> Linda,
>
> > gee whiz, Donald - Mike gets baby rabbits and we get copperheads!
>
> Not funny! That's exactly what I raked out over my feet this afternoon.
> Not just one, but two. At least the second wasn't tangled in my feet for a
> bit. Drat! With the high winds moving leaves into drift piles and my
> current yard mess, they will have plenty of hiding places for the
> foreseeable future. I'm still a bit wired.
>
> Donald
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:47:28 -0600
> From: "Char" <Cholte@wi.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] OT BIO: Seana
>
> Hi Seans,
>
> Welcome.
>
> Where do you live? Area of the country.
>
> Char, New Berlin (near Milwaukee) WI
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: <eriknseana@att.net>
> To: <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:45 AM
> Subject: [iris] OT BIO: Seana
>
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I just joined the list. I'll probably end up mostly lurking and soaking
> up all of your iris wisdom. I home school our four children and can end up
> short on time - so you won't probably see me posting a lot but I'll be here
> reading as I can.
> >
> > My mom and I have been growing Iris for all of my life and most of hers.
> When I was very young, we used to look for the Schriener's and Cooley's Iris
> catalogs to come in the mail and pour over them for weeks after they
> arrived. We discovered how easy hybridizing can be, a year or two ago and
> we have the seeds from the crosses we made this last summer and a couple bee
> pods. We moved this fall so we didn't want to plant anything before we were
> settled. We're storing the seeds in the fridge waiting until we have space
> prepared for them!
> >
> > I think I'll go join the Iris Photo list now - like I need "time sucking
> thing" to do online!
> >
> >
> > Seana (Pronounced Shawna)
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:00:04 -0600
> From: "Char" <Cholte@wi.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] Medians: KEEPER & BOURGEOUIS
>
> Rita,
>
> How do we get the new list. As you can tell I am behind on reading some of
> my materials.
>
> Char, New Berlin, WI
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: <GormleyGreenery@aol.com>
> To: <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [iris] Medians: KEEPER & BOURGEOUIS
>
>
> > In a message dated 3/27/2004 1:07:49 PM Central Standard Time,
> > Ranchiris@aol.com writes:
> > would appreciate any information on KEEPER and BOURGEOUIS that anyone out
> > there can provide.
> >
> > Kathy, (excuse the commercial!) you need the new Median Checklist through
> > 2002!!
> >
> > BOURGEOIS (Paul Black, R. 2002). Sdlg. H238BB. SDB, 14" (36 cm), M. S.
> claret
> > purple; style arms purple, paler edges; F. lighter claret purple, small
> plum
> > spot around beard and small blue flash at end of beard, dark navy veins;
> > beards violet and brown; pronounced spicy fragrance. Snugglebug X Buddy
> Boy.
> > Mid-America 2003.
> >
> > Nothing on Keeper-only IT'S A KEEPER
> > IT'S A KEEPER (Ken Kremer, R. 2001). SDB, 8" (21 cm), E. S. white, shaded
> > pale yellow gold; style arms white and lavender; F. gold, white trim;
> beards blue
> > lavender, large and bushy. Leprechaun's Delight X Cry Baby.
> >
> > Rita Gormley
> > Median Iris Society Membership Chair, Editor and keeper of the Checklist
> > Gormley Greenery
> > Cedar Hill, MO
> > AIS Region 18, Zone 5
> > www.gormleygreenery.com
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:48:13 EST
> From: Autmirislvr@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
>
> In a message dated 3/27/2004 1:46:50 PM Central Standard Time,
> irisdude@msn.com writes:
>
> > and now you are telling me that I
> > have to get something better than anything similar to it that is out
> > there????!!!
> >
>
> Better is subjective. It doesn't refer to form alone. If I happen to like
> tall irises (or short) and I produce an iris that looks just like NAME BRAND,
> but is 2 inches taller (or shorter), in my eyes, it is an improvement because I
> prefer taller/shorter irises. I may even think it worthy of introduction.
>
> Factor in the wide variety of forms. Just because I don't like a given form
> doesn't mean that others won't like it. Then, there is plant vigor, increase,
> stalk, branching and season of growth.
>
> Color alone, can bring up a whole smorgasboard of variations and preferences.
> Add in the various patterns and walla! We have hybridizers back in
> business!
>
> Patrick, I submit that there is still a lot to be done! (And I didn't even
> mention rebloom!)
>
> I'm visualizing an iris with the stalk of Dusky Challenger, the form of
> Silverado, branching of Song of Norway, bud count of Victory Falls in the fall,
> color of Supreme Sultan (insert color pattern of choice) and the fall bloom
> capacity of Summer Olympics in a good year!
>
> Betty W. in South-central KY Zone 6 . . .
> Bridge In Time Iris Garden@website:
> www.thegardensite.com/irises/bridgeintime/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:01:18 -0800
> From: "John Reeds" <lamegardener@msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
>
> Patrick:
>
> Why would anyone introduce, say, a lavender iris, unless in at least one
> aspect it was better than whatever other similar lavender iris were on the
> market (for bud count, width & substance, lace & ruffles, or something)! I
> have seen plenty of worthless intros. Someday I may well introduce something
> with poor bud count, without knowing how it grows in Manitoba; but you can bet
> that it grew well for me and that I thought the flower was definitely unique
> and/or special in some way. I hope (as always) that one of this year's
> seedling will turn out to be my first intro. I get yelled at a lot for
> throwing out huge clumps of generically nice iris.
>
> John Reeds
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Patrick Orr
> To: iris@hort.net
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
>
>
> Wait a minute! Hold the train!!!
>
> What???!
>
> I have always been taught and have heard it said that your aim is to
> introduce
> something better than both its parents...and now you are telling me that I
> have to get something better than anything similar to it that is out
> there????!!!
>
> lol
>
> I feel like giving up already...
>
> I thought it is going to be hard enough to get something that is better
> than
> just both its parents.
>
> But seriously though...it makes sense. As hard as it is to do, it would be
> nice to say something you introduce is better than anything else out there.
>
> Just not sure it will ever happen.
>
> Patrick Orr
> Phoenix, AZ zone 9
> USA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: RYFigge@aol.com
> To: iris@hort.net ; neilm@charter.net
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
>
>
> Neil has really hit on the crucial point -- my judges' HAndbook is too
> far
> for me to reach to check on this, but I think there is the idea or rule
> in
> it
> -- or else it was pounded into my head in early judges training ---THAT
> you
> do
> not introduce something unless it is superior to what has already been
> introduced that is similar.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:11:30 -0700
> From: "Patrick Orr" <irisdude@msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
>
> I'll get right on that for you Betty! lol
>
> Yes, better definitely is subjective. It means something totally different to
> me than it does to others.
>
> To some, it does only mean flower form or pattern, others it could mean color,
> for some, it is rebloom, and for many others, it means most of the different
> things you mentioned.
>
> I'll never forget the time I bought a $50 amoena because it was the latest
> pattern, never before seen, and the thing never ever grew. It did not grow for
> anyone really well. But, for the percentage of people in the country that
> could grow it to bloom stage, the flower was breathtaking. It was so
> breathtaking, I never once heard anyone mention anything else about it, such
> as branching, bud count, disease resistance, etc.
>
> Patrick Orr
> Phoenix AZ Zone 9
> USA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Autmirislvr@aol.com
> To: iris@hort.net
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 7:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
>
>
> In a message dated 3/27/2004 1:46:50 PM Central Standard Time,
> irisdude@msn.com writes:
>
> > and now you are telling me that I
> > have to get something better than anything similar to it that is out
> > there????!!!
> >
>
> Better is subjective. It doesn't refer to form alone. If I happen to like
> tall irises (or short) and I produce an iris that looks just like NAME
> BRAND,
> but is 2 inches taller (or shorter), in my eyes, it is an improvement
> because I
> prefer taller/shorter irises. I may even think it worthy of introduction.
>
> Factor in the wide variety of forms. Just because I don't like a given form
> doesn't mean that others won't like it. Then, there is plant vigor,
> increase,
> stalk, branching and season of growth.
>
> Color alone, can bring up a whole smorgasboard of variations and
> preferences.
> Add in the various patterns and walla! We have hybridizers back in
> business!
>
> Patrick, I submit that there is still a lot to be done! (And I didn't even
> mention rebloom!)
>
> I'm visualizing an iris with the stalk of Dusky Challenger, the form of
> Silverado, branching of Song of Norway, bud count of Victory Falls in the
> fall,
> color of Supreme Sultan (insert color pattern of choice) and the fall bloom
> capacity of Summer Olympics in a good year!
>
> Betty W. in South-central KY Zone 6 . . .
> Bridge In Time Iris Garden@website:
> www.thegardensite.com/irises/bridgeintime/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:15:43 -0600
> From: "Donald Eaves" <donald@eastland.net>
> Subject: Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
>
> John,
>
> >I get yelled at a lot for
> > throwing out huge clumps of generically nice iris.
>
> They don't even have to be that generically nice! :)
>
> Donald Eaves
> donald@eastland.net
> Texas Zone 7b, USA
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:32:12 -0800
> From: Randy Squires <randysiris@juno.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
>
> <irisdude@msn.com> writes:
> > it would be nice to say something you introduce is better than anything
> else out
> > there.
>
> Patrick,
> You could always say it is better than half the stuff that is already out
> there,
> which would be true considering how many introduced iris there are.
>
> Randy Squires z10 North Hills, CA
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:40:49 -0500
> From: <rives@rogers.com>
> Subject: [iris] Re: List of names
>
> It depends.
>
> There is a list of registered named iris - non-bulbous forms at any rate. It is
> maintained by the American Iris Society. The bulbous registry is maintained by
> the Dutch Bulb Growers... or some such - I have it written out somewhere.
>
> The AIS registry is available from their storefront (see the AIS website). A
> substantial portion of it is also available online. Further information is
> available via 'www.irises.org'.
>
> However you did say 'named'. There are a large number of named varieties that
> are not registered - certain extremely large garden centres simply don't care.
> Also, there are many introductions in foreign countries that have not followed
> the proper registration trail. I know of several varieties that were registered
> by Canadian hybridizers several years after being introduced to commerce. Many
> Japanese cultivars have never been registered despite their obvious quality.
>
> So... to the best of my knowledge there is no list of all named varieties.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sandy Ives (on the road somewhere, but not in Ottawa today)
>
> 1
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:46:57 -0600
> From: "Kelly D. Norris" <kellydn@frontiernet.net>
> Subject: [iris] Re: AIS: Judges work load, etc
>
> I have a few questions regarding judging etc....
>
>
>
> 1) What are the requirements to be an AIS judge?
>
> 2) How much training is required to become a judge?
>
>
>
> In talking about how to select and get good plants out there for all to
> see I have followed the test garden thread with interest. This sort of
> thing reminds me of the All-American Selections program and how it is
> setup. Various gardens around the country apply for status as an AAS
> display garden, affording them the opportunity to trial candidates for
> introduction, showcase old winners, and act as a preview for upcoming
> introductions. The AAS is a non-profit organization that freely
> distributes the plant material (usually seeds) to these various gardens
> that in turn are responsible for growing the plants and working them
> into a suitable display. At each garden a "resident" judge is present
> and that person assesses the qualities of the entered plants. These
> people are volunteers and may have to go through some kind of "are you
> sure you are the right person for the job" kind of thing before they can
> judge. Here in the Midwest we can AAS Display gardens at Bluebird
> Nursery in Clarkson, Nebraska where nursery owner Harlan Hammernik is
> the person who scores things there. He then submits his report on all
> cultivars he has judged to the national office. The national office
> compiles the results and averages the scores and whoever has the highest
> score etc. wins the award. This however can lead to cultivars being
> disseminated that aren't sure fire performers in all regions (though no
> worse than some of the Dykes winners have been known to be ). This sort
> of system also requires a lot of work on behalf of the "manager" of the
> display garden. I am not sure how well this system could easily be
> applied to iris (which maybe aren't as easily propagated as are
> 1,000,000 petunia seeds or something) but thought I would share just in
> case it sparked anyone else's mind.
>
>
>
> The only way things can get better is if we have intelligent,
> well-organized discussions as such. Keep it coming!
>
>
>
> Botanically,
>
>
>
> Kelly D. Norris
>
> Master Gardener/Freelance Writer
>
> Bedford, Iowa USA
>
> Zone 4b/5a
>
> www.rainbowfarms.net
>
> http://kellydn03.tripod.com
>
> List owner rare-plants
>
> Newsletter Editor, Iowa Bluebird Conservationists
>
>
>
> The love of knowledge is a sort of madness.
> C. S. Lewis, Out of the Silent Planet
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:50:26 -0600
> From: "Kelly D. Norris" <kellydn@frontiernet.net>
> Subject: [iris] RE: Re: AIS: Judges work load, etc
>
> In reviewing my post after submission I noticed a couple of grammatical
> mistakes. Sorry!
>
>
>
> Botanically,
>
>
>
> Kelly D. Norris
>
> Master Gardener/Freelance Writer
>
> Bedford, Iowa USA
>
> Zone 4b/5a
>
> www.rainbowfarms.net
>
> http://kellydn03.tripod.com
>
> List owner rare-plants
>
> Newsletter Editor, Iowa Bluebird Conservationists
>
>
>
> The love of knowledge is a sort of madness.
> C. S. Lewis, Out of the Silent Planet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: Kelly D. Norris [k*@frontiernet.net]
> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:47 PM
> To: 'iris@hort.net'
> Subject: Re: AIS: Judges work load, etc
>
>
>
> I have a few questions regarding judging etc....
>
>
>
> 1) What are the requirements to be an AIS judge?
>
> 2) How much training is required to become a judge?
>
>
>
> In talking about how to select and get good plants out there for all to
> see I have followed the test garden thread with interest. This sort of
> thing reminds me of the All-American Selections program and how it is
> setup. Various gardens around the country apply for status as an AAS
> display garden, affording them the opportunity to trial candidates for
> introduction, showcase old winners, and act as a preview for upcoming
> introductions. The AAS is a non-profit organization that freely
> distributes the plant material (usually seeds) to these various gardens
> that in turn are responsible for growing the plants and working them
> into a suitable display. At each garden a "resident" judge is present
> and that person assesses the qualities of the entered plants. These
> people are volunteers and may have to go through some kind of "are you
> sure you are the right person for the job" kind of thing before they can
> judge. Here in the Midwest we have AAS Display gardens at Bluebird
> Nursery in Clarkson, Nebraska where nursery owner Harlan Hammernik is
> "the resident judge". He then submits his report on all cultivars he
> has judged to the national office. The national office compiles the
> results and averages the scores and whoever has the highest score etc.
> wins the award. This however can lead to cultivars being disseminated
> that aren't sure fire performers in all regions (though no worse than
> some of the Dykes winners have been known to be ). This sort of system
> also requires a lot of work on behalf of the "manager" of the display
> garden. I am not sure how well this system could easily be applied to
> iris (which maybe aren't as easily propagated as are 1,000,000 petunia
> seeds or something) but thought I would share just in case it sparked
> anyone else's mind.
>
>
>
> The only way things can get better is if we have intelligent,
> well-organized discussions as such. Keep it coming!
>
>
>
> Botanically,
>
>
>
> Kelly D. Norris
>
> Master Gardener/Freelance Writer
>
> Bedford, Iowa USA
>
> Zone 4b/5a
>
> www.rainbowfarms.net
>
> http://kellydn03.tripod.com
>
> List owner rare-plants
>
> Newsletter Editor, Iowa Bluebird Conservationists
>
>
>
> The love of knowledge is a sort of madness.
> C. S. Lewis, Out of the Silent Planet
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:02:22 -0700
> From: "Patrick Orr" <irisdude@msn.com>
> Subject: Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
>
> I previously said:
>
> >As hard as it is to do, it would be nice to say something you introduced is
> >better than anything else out there.
>
> >Just not sure it will ever happen...
>
>
> I just want to clear up any misunderstanding out there as to what I mean by
> that statement...
>
> It seems there are so many good varieties out there already in every class,
> that I felt it would be very difficult for ME to outdo any of them within
> their class...
>
> However, I am still going to try. One of these days...I just might get lucky!
>
> Patrick
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 07:18:21 EST
> From: RYFigge@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, "throwing out 'no good'"
>
> Donald, It is sad that people "uneducated " in what is a "good" iris are so
> easily satisfied with substandards. It is also sad that "backyard breeders"
> (a term borrowed from people who breed their pride and joy dog ( really bitch
> for the female, which they usually have)without knowing the approved
> standards for that breed -- I'm getting all involved here with roundabout
> similes
> etc - I learned this about dogs when my children were involved in dog
> training, and remember my mother's horrified expression when my 11 year old
> daughter
> started using the word "bitch" ! But back on track -- the small garden
> hybridizers also are usually unaware that you should not give away, nor
> especially
> sell (!) "no good" irises ---that just perpetuates the problem. There are
> also catalogs(several famous ones that AIS frowns upon) that promote irises
> they have named similar to registered names which also confuses the
> "uneducated"
> But it is hard to discard one's children, sending your hard work into
> oblivion, sometimes even using them for mulch is not a good idea. Bye, now.
> Rosalie nr Baltimore, Md. USA zone 7, looking dull at this hour.
> ryfigge@aol.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 07:36:04 EST
> From: RYFigge@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [iris] AIS: Better than anything else
>
> Everybody, of course it will happen! There are examples, out there,. I am
> sure -- one is "SNOW FLURRY" another "SAN FRANCISCO" -- the hybridzers were
> not from famous gardens! I think I'm correct about this -- and I'll probably be
> shut down for the following! But at least it got an A.M. and John Weiler
> said it was the best rebloomer of its color when introduced. AND , Jane McKnew,
> the hybridizer, had the tiniest city, backyard - yet she was able to walk
> away with the prize at every show for her seedlings and entries. If she had
> lived, I am sure she would have produced a Dykes that would be better than many
> of the past. "Nuff said/ Rosalie nr Baltimore,MD, USA zone 7, sun beginning
> to show up now. ryfigge@aol.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 08:07:04 EST
> From: Autmirislvr@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [iris] AIS: Judges work load, and Neil's closing remarks
>
> In a message dated 3/27/2004 11:03:45 PM Central Standard Time,
> irisdude@msn.com writes:
>
> > It seems there are so many good varieties out there already in every class,
> > that I felt it would be very difficult for ME to outdo any of them within
> > their class...
> >
>
> Patrick, that feeling is what caused me to start hybridizing rebloomers.
>
> A friend was constantly saying that I should hybridize. My reply was that
> iris had already improved so much I didn't see anyplace where I could
> contribute.
>
> By chance I'd bought some fall bloomers from Fields. Thought pattern being I
> like irises so much that it would be neat to have some in the fall too. I
> received some of the old rebloomers, Eleanor Roosevelt, and Southland (I think).
> It seemed like a natural progression to turn the modern bloom that I love so
> much into rebloom.
>
> That was twenty years ago. A lot of research (and living) has changed my
> mind on both parts of that equation. Now I see areas that need improvement in
> oncers (speaking TB) and I see where rebloomers have come a long way already.
>
> Betty W. in South-central KY Zone 6 . . . tweezers a twitching in the drawer!
>
> Bridge In Time Iris Garden@website:
> www.thegardensite.com/irises/bridgeintime/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 08:07:50 EST
> From: GormleyGreenery@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [iris] Medians: KEEPER & BOURGEOUIS
>
> In a message dated 3/27/2004 8:01:07 PM Central Standard Time,
> Cholte@wi.rr.com writes:
> How do we get the new list. As you can tell I am behind on reading some of
> my materials.
> Char, the MIS 2002 Checklist will be available at the Convention or can be
> ordered from me-see the Medianite ($16 printed, $10 CD)
>
> Rita Gormley
> Gormley Greenery
> Cedar Hill, MO
> AIS Region 18, Zone 5
> www.gormleygreenery.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 10:09:32 EST
> From: Cttnghmge@aol.com
> Subject: [iris] Dykes Medal Winners
>
> Could one of you "seasoned iris" lovers tell me where I can obtain a list of
> Dykes Medal winners that is inclusive from its inception?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Grace Cottingham
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:15:47 -0600
> From: "Dana Brown" <DanaBrown@peoplepc.com>
> Subject: [iris] FW: judging iris
>
> There are several steps to becoming a judge in Region 17. There
> are a set of requirements that are mandated by AIS. On top of that Region
> 17 has added a few more things.
>
> The first thing you have to do is ask for and fill out an application.
> There is an online version of this available at:
> http://www.aisregion17.org/images/pdf/APPLICATION.pdf The application is
> merely a formal request to start judges training and your acceptance is
> automatic as long as you are a member of AIS.
>
> After that you enter the first stage of training. First you are a
> candidate. In order to move from candidate to apprentice you must:
> * Attend 6 hours of judges training classes - split in to at two sessions.
> * Obtain 4 hours of tutoring from an AIS judge on Tall Beardeds. This is
> further split into 2 hours in the garden and two hours of exhibition. These
> may be split in to one hour segments.
> * Obtain 4 hours of tutoring from an AIS judge on "other than Tall
> Beardeds"
> * Obtain 5 letters of recommendation from judges who have tutored you.
> * Attend two regional meetings.
> There is a pdf'd form listing all of this available at:
> http://www.aisregion17.org/images/pdf/jt-cand.pdf
>
> Once you have completed the above then you become an apprentice
> and to move from apprentice to accredited garden judge you must:
> * Observe two accredited shows as an apprentice attached to a panel of
> judges
> * 4 hours of tutoring on seedlings and new varieties in the garden, split
> into two 2 hour session
> * Obtain at least 2 hours of judges training classes per year - you must
> have a 1 hour class in show rules and 2 hours in awards and ballots
> * Prepare a show schedule or be show chair
> There is a pdf'd form listing all of this available at:
> http://www.aisregion17.org/images/pdf/jt-app.pdf
>
> Each step of this must be documented using this form:
> http://www.aisregion17.org/images/pdf/JT%20certificate.pdf
>
> Traditionally, the person obtaining the training will provide a copy of this
> form along with a stamped envelope addressed to the Judges Training Chair.
> It is the judges responsibility to fill it out and send it in. This would
> also be the point when you would ask the judge providing the tutoring for a
> recommendation (while you are a candidate). Remember, you need 5, so, you
> must get training from at least 5 different judges.
>
> Hopefully I didn't miss anything. Please remember that there
> are slight variations from region to region. If any of you are interested
> just let me know, I would be glad to help!!
>
>
> Dana
>
>
> Dana Brown
> AIS Region 17 Judges Training Chairperson
> Director TBIS
> AIS, ASI, MIS, RIS, SPIS, TBIS
> Malevil Gardens
> www.malevil-iris.com <http://www.malevil-iris.com/>
> Lubbock, TX
> Zone 7 USDA, Zone 10 Sunset
> DanaBrown@peoplepc.com <D*@peoplepc.com>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 04 09:19:06 -0600
> From: laurief <laurief@paulbunyan.net>
> Subject: Re: [iris] Dykes Medal Winners
>
> >Could one of you "seasoned iris" lovers tell me where I can obtain a list of
> >Dykes Medal winners that is inclusive from its inception?
>
> Try here:
> http://www.worldiris.com/public_html/level2/Dykes_Menu.html
>
>
> - -----------------
> laurief@paulbunyan.net
> http://www.geocities.com/lfandjg/
> http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/shadowood/irisintro.html
> USDA zone 3b, AHS zone 4 - northern MN
> normal annual precipitation 26-27"
> slightly acid clay soil
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 10:15:55 -0500
> From: "Neil A Mogensen" <neilm@charter.net>
> Subject: [iris] HYB: Getting ahead of the "big guys"
>
> Some rather famous hybridizers were "backyard gardeners" including David Hall,
> for example. He, and a number of others like him did not raise thousands or
> tens of thousands of seedlings per year.
>
> There is one thing in common among those small time hybridizers that made it
> big, however. Judging from published pedigrees something of a formula comes
> to mind that describes what they did:
>
> 1) select out the highest quality relatively new parents in three or four
> distinctly different types/colors/lines--for example, best blue, best pink,
> best luminata, best rebloomer or space ager.
>
> 2) make crosses among them in as many different combinations as you have room
> to plant
>
> 3) select out the best of the seedlings ignoring color for the moment--but the
> best for vigor, branching, bud count and so on--, then get rid of the rest
>
> 4) make crosses among them in as many combinations as possible, selecting the
> best of the best in the same way as in 3
>
> 5) then inbreed the progeny staying as tightly focussed on a single objective
> as possible.
>
> After a number of generations, what you have has never existed before--but add
> color--brilliance, clarity and character--to the selection critera, and
> continue to stay focused.
>
> Suppose you started out with Tasco's FIRST WAVE, a Keppel tangerine bearded
> Luminata, a Sutton family wide-hafted flounced blue such as Mike's BOTTOMS UP
> and a Ghio pink. In the first generation or two you might have some pretty
> awful stuff, but the best of them crossed back and forth in a few generations
> are likely to have produced some rather different seedlings with some distict
> qualities combined.in unique ways in some pretty classy offspring.
>
> It doesn't take ten thousand seedlings a year to do this. Especially true
> will be the observation that what you have isn't "just another...." whatever.
>
> The crosses that produced PINNACLE, GRACIE PFOST, NEW MOON, and DR. WANLASS
> started out following a pattern like this and only got to step three or so
> before they made big-time iris history. David Hall's pinks followed a
> pattern like this over numerous generations.
>
> As Rosalie and others pointed out, we aren't "there" yet--there's still a lot
> of room for improvement, especially in the areas of tough survivability and
> perpetual blooming--objectives we can (and are) working toward.
>
> Neil Mogensen z 7 western NC
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 10:31:12 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
> From: Anita Moran <avmoran1@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [iris] Dykes Medal Winners
>
> http://thewinslows.com/dykes.htm
>
> here ya go
> :)
> Enjoy
> Anita
>
> Anita Moran
> USDA Zone 6b
> Maryland
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 10:59:13 -0500
> From: Christopher Darlington <chris.darlington@sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Re: [iris] HYB: Getting ahead of the "big guys"
>
> Neil,
>
> Thanks for sharing these inspiring ideas. As a backyard hybridizer, I
> find myself to be very much an intuitive dauber. This plan suits me
> very nicely.
>
> Chris
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:18:43 -0800
> From: "Lobergs" <loberg@adelphia.net>
> Subject: Re: [iris] FW: judging iris
>
> Dana,
> Ours (Region 14) are very similar to Reg17. We always encourage
> students and apprentices to take any other regular training as well, as all
> training helps make a better judge. After serving as JT chair for 3 years,
> I have some thoughts and perspectives.
> #1 Our region always needs more judges, and I suspect other regions do as
> well. Folks in our region are so widespread, it's 10 hours driving from
> the Oregon border to past Fresno in the south, so it has always been a
> problem for some clubs to obtain judges for their shows due to the distance
> some need to travel, 2) for students and apprentices to get to where
> training may be offered, 3) to get groups together for training because it
> is hard to travel so far, and 4) if we arranged seminars in the north, the
> south doesn't come, if we arrange seminars in the south, the north doesn't
> come. The hardest portion of training to keep candidates interested is
> during those 'student' years, as once they become an apprentice, they're
> 'hooked' and usually proceed quicker through the final phases. I think
> we've had about a 50% dropout rate for students. I think they feel
> frustrated because it sounds like becoming a garden judge is "so far off
> into the future", and they find it hard to get around to training because of
> distances, or when they do get out to hybridizers or commercial gardens,
> they learn MORE from talking to those growers, and get no credit for that
> time. I've had this discussed with me time and time again.
> #2 It has been suggested to me, that some of the training... the portions
> where one learns about the standards from studying the Handbook, could be
> accomplished in an on-line training class... just like colleges and
> universities are doing, on-line courses. Another example, even student
> driver's education is widely advertised, obtainable, and tested through the
> Internet, and the hands-on portion is done through private driving schools.
> On line JT training seems like an excellent idea. When we do tests in the
> group sessions in Region 14, they're not "graded" to see if you pass or not,
> everyone checks the answers themselves on the tests, and all the questions
> are gone over at the end of the group session. It's part of the educational
> process. However, on-line courses could extend the opportunity to people
> throughout all regions, the training could be more standardized and
> thorough, and testing could be done on-line as well. And once a
> student/apprentice has completed the tests, including one such as awards and
> ballots, they could also be scheduling one-on-one time or additional time in
> the garden with experienced judges to reinforce their knowledge. On-line
> courses could facilitate getting students through those earlier difficult
> years in a timely fashion and perhaps lower the high drop out rate we've
> experienced. And there is even an added bonus to the concept on on-line
> classes. In areas of certain types of iris, such as Japanese, which don't
> grow very well in my area, on-line classes would provide exposure to
> training that may not be available every year. It also could be accessed
> by accredited judges for those who simply would like some review, and even
> to the general public who would just like to learn more.
> Kitty
>
> Kitty Loberg
> Northern Calif.
> AIS Region 14 Treasurer
> AIS Region 14 Electronic Services Chair
> AIS Region 14 2004 Convention Treasurer
> AIS Region 14 Past Judges' Training Chair
> AIS Region 14 Past RVP
> AIS, TBIS, SSI, SJI
> Redwood Iris Society President
>
> > There are several steps to becoming a judge in Region 17.
> There
> > are a set of requirements that are mandated by AIS. On top of that Region
> > 17 has added a few more things.
> >
> > The first thing you have to do is ask for and fill out an application.
> > There is an online version of this available at:
> > http://www.aisregion17.org/images/pdf/APPLICATION.pdf The application is
> > merely a formal request to start judges training and your acceptance is
> > automatic as long as you are a member of AIS.
> >
> > After that you enter the first stage of training. First you are a
> > candidate. In order to move from candidate to apprentice you must:
> > * Attend 6 hours of judges training classes - split in to at two sessions.
> > * Obtain 4 hours of tutoring from an AIS judge on Tall Beardeds. This is
> > further split into 2 hours in the garden and two hours of exhibition.
> These
> > may be split in to one hour segments.
> > * Obtain 4 hours of tutoring from an AIS judge on "other than Tall
> Beardeds"
> > * Obtain 5 letters of recommendation from judges who have tutored you.
> > * Attend two regional meetings.
> > There is a pdf'd form listing all of this available at:
> > http://www.aisregion17.org/images/pdf/jt-cand.pdf
> >
> > Once you have completed the above then you become an
> apprentice
> > and to move from apprentice to accredited garden judge you must:
> > * Observe two accredited shows as an apprentice attached to a panel of
> > judges
> > * 4 hours of tutoring on seedlings and new varieties in the garden, split
> > into two 2 hour session
> > * Obtain at least 2 hours of judges training classes per year - you must
> > have a 1 hour class in show rules and 2 hours in awards and ballots
> > * Prepare a show schedule or be show chair
> > There is a pdf'd form listing all of this available at:
> > http://www.aisregion17.org/images/pdf/jt-app.pdf
> >
> > Each step of this must be documented using this form:
> > http://www.aisregion17.org/images/pdf/JT%20certificate.pdf
> >
> > Traditionally, the person obtaining the training will provide a copy of
> this
> > form along with a stamped envelope addressed to the Judges Training Chair.
> > It is the judges responsibility to fill it out and send it in. This would
> > also be the point when you would ask the judge providing the tutoring for
> a
> > recommendation (while you are a candidate). Remember, you need 5, so, you
> > must get training from at least 5 different judges.
> >
> > Hopefully I didn't miss anything. Please remember that there
> > are slight variations from region to region. If any of you are interested
> > just let me know, I would be glad to help!!
> >
> >
> > Dana
> >
> >
> > Dana Brown
> > AIS Region 17 Judges Training Chairperson
> > Director TBIS
> > AIS, ASI, MIS, RIS, SPIS, TBIS
> > Malevil Gardens
> > www.malevil-iris.com <http://www.malevil-iris.com/>
> > Lubbock, TX
> > Zone 7 USDA, Zone 10 Sunset
> > DanaBrown@peoplepc.com <D*@peoplepc.com>
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of iris DIGEST V1 #91
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