Re: RE:HYB: Pallida
Hi,
Been away from the work desk for a while, and don't get this group at home
right now, so just got to this line.
Neil did an admirable job of outlining exactly the same that I would have
told you. There are a few comments I might add.
As to fragrance, I've had some pallida types that have very little or no
fragrance, but when a fragrance is there, it is always grape soda flavored,
never anything else.
The cultivars that are apparent descendents of I. pallida and I. variegata
mixing usually have a rather unique "stink", and I suppose this is where
the name "Elder Iris" came from (though it doesn't smell like Elder I
know). A few do smell like grape, but these are apparently very close to
I. pallida through back-crossing; however, they are still obviously not
pure pallida in other traits. Notably, the spathe is nearly always at
least partly green if there is any genetic ancestry from I. variegata.
Interestingly, the "rootbeer" or "bubblegum" smelling old cultivars all
seem to be derived from roughly (I. pallida x I. variegata) x Near East TB
tetraploid "species"). The tetraploids being 'Amas', trojana,
mesopotamica, cypriana, etc. It seems that there may be an interaction in
these rootbeer plants between three very different types of Iris fragrance.
I can only think of two of these off hand, 'Prospero' and 'Alcazar', but I
would like to compile a list of them in the future (any help is welcomed).
By the way, to me, as I recall (maybe) I. variegata sometime has a very
faint smell that is not unlike the majority of other bearded Iris. I can't
compare it well to anything else; it is the "Iris" smell. The TB
tetraploid species mostly have this smell.
Anyway, back to the characters of I. pallida. These pallida plants indeed
never have PBF, but I. variegata nearly always does (there seem to be rare
exceptions). Presence of PBF immediately puts a plant under suspicion as
being a "non-pallida". The hybrids and their descendents quite often do
have PBF, even ones that favor I. pallida in many other ways.
I have seen tetraploids, descended from I. pallida crossed with Near
Eastern type tetraploids, that have the papery spathes and are rather like
I. pallida's in other characters, and some even have a hint the grapy sweet
fragrance (as I recall 'Snow Flurry' might fit on all counts), but they are
larger and clearly have other tetraploid qualities. I've seen several
whites like this, but don't know the names of all of them.
I've often wondered what a pure I. pallida tetraploid might look like. In
light of all the unreduced gametes (or was it paired gametes?) of I.
pallida that went into the tetraploid TB line, it seems that a few of those
unreduced gametes might have met up with one another and produced a pure
tetraploid pallida somewhere along the line? Wondering out into left
field here again ----
Another characteristic of I. pallida is the way the flowers open. The
spathe is papery and translucent even before the flower opens. However, it
is not always pure white as is so often stated, occasionally it is a bit
grayish or brownish, but still nearly white. The spathe wraps the flower
inside and usually forces the flower to crumple up inside as it expands,
often the flower bends to the side. Also, the whole bud is rather
flattened laterally until the flower bursts out. Most often the tip of the
rolled up flower isn't the first part out, but rather it bursts through
sideways. A few do push through the tip, but enough don't on any given
stalk to make it noticeable. This is something I haven't seen in any other
Iris, including those of mixed I. pallida and I. variegata ancestry. I
haven't seen a few other species such as I. imbricata in flower yet, but of
all the Irises I have seen, including those commonly in cultivation, I.
pallida is the easiest to recognize.
The only thing I might disagree with Neil on is the height of the plants.
I have several I. pallida clones that never get to 30 inches for me, in
fact they often don't make 24 inches, but otherwise they are just smallish
I. pallida. I should add that in my growing conditions, even the biggest
I. pallida don't often make 30 inches, but they come close. Under other
conditions, my shorties might be a lot taller?
As for the coloring of the flower, that is noticeable too. The flowers are
solid, there is rarely any noticeable difference between the falls and
standards as is characteristic of most other TB species. Any veining is
usually limited to the haft and claw area, and is not strongly contrasting.
The beard is consistently narrow and is a mix of colors from white to
orange-yellow, but rarely is it pure white or pure yellow. I've never
noticed any anthocyanin in the beard, but this needs more thorough checking
(I might not have been looking closely). Yellow on tepals is I think
limited to the base, and never noticeable (perhaps it may often be lacking
entirely? - can't remember for certain). The overall color (if not white)
is either a bluish violet that can look quite blue, or it is a reddish rose
purple that tends to look pink. Every nonwhite I've seen is one or the
other, not in between. The "blues" seem to generally have a stronger grape
smell than the "pinks", but this may not be consistent. I only know two
cones of (or are they one?) whites, and I think they are "both" glaciatas.
I think I have a lead or two on other whites though. I've not seen a
flower of 'Kupari' up close and personal yet.
The little I. pallida var. cengialtii types that I have (only a few) are
very similar to "typical" pallida, but I notice that the foliage is a bit
different (hard to remember details, but it seems they have a hint of
ribbing (need to double check) and the fans tend to spread out more widely.
The flowers in mine are more saturated in color than any of the taller
pallidas. I've never noticed any smell in any of these. They also have
very slender stalks. They look to me like they may have some genes from
some other small species mixed in, but the I. pallida characters dominate.
My "smallish" I. pallidas are typical pallida, but these little guys (such
as 'Munich Blue', 'Loppio', 'Mostar', etc. are very distinctive. I haven't
seen anything I would call intermediate yet, so if I had to go with what
I've seen so far, I might argue that they are a distinct species. I am
hoping to get 'Illyrica' going soon, as it is claimed to be more like one
or the other (but not always the same), so it should be intermediate?
Another thing I should add, is that a few cultivars have been called I.
pallida that are not. For instance the "pallida" parent of 'Paltec' wasn't
a pallida at all, but a pallida/variegata intermediate (can't remember
which cultivar off hand though, just the fact).
Below is a list of pallida cultivars I sent to the Iris species group about
a year ago. I've modified it a bit since, but not much. Those without a
question mark are mostly, but not all ones that I've grown, and they fit
the criteria of being a "pallida". Since this list was just a reference of
names for me, it didn't come with any detailed notes, and I'm sure there
are a few goofs on it.
Dave
I. pallida var. pallida (quite a few of these are plicatas)
Albert Victor?
Anna Farr?
Aphrodite
Argentea (white variegate; often called 'Variegata', 'Alba Variegata',
etc.)
Australis
Bluet
Cordelia?
Dalmatica
Damozel?
Delicatissima?
Dogrose
Eros
Fairy
Floridor
Fragonard?
Gertrude?
Helen Field Fischer
Illyrica (maybe cengialtii?)
Jeanne d'Arc?
Juniata?
Kupari
La Neige?
Little Freak
Ma Mie
Madame Chereau
Madame Louesse?
Mandraliscae?
Odoratissima
Oriflamme
Parisiana
Pauline?
Pink Opal
Pink Satin
Plicata
Pocahontas
Prince Charming
[Prince] Lohengrin?
Princess Beatrice
Prince Charming
Rheingauperle
Rolandiana?
Rubella?
Solferino
St. Claire
Susan Bliss
Swertii
Tendresse?
Thais
Tinae?
Trostringer
True Charm
True Delight
Variegata (yellow variegate; ='Aurea Variegata'; incorrect as 'Zebra')
White Knight?
I. pallida var. cengialtii
Loppio
Metkevic
Mostar
Munich Blue
NOT PALLIDA (but sometimes quoted to be)
These all seem to be hybrids of Iris pallida and Iris variegata.
Argent
Celeste
Corrida
Innocenza (white version of 'Flavescens')
Madame Chobaut
Mrs. Horace Darwin (white version of 'Flavescens')
No-we-ta
Oriana
Pink Ruffles
Plumeri
Queen of May
Rhages
Taj Mahal
Troost
Dave
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