RE: iris DIGEST V1 #359

Alcohol will disolve water soluble chemicals  in tissues that water alone can't as it penetrates oil bariers and tissues that provide mechanical barriers to water alone.

Still havn't finished setting up lab and TBs still about three weeks from bloom. I can only devote so much time to research as everything else needs to get done but will do the best I can, allthought there are some things (well maybe more then just a couple) already behind schedule.

Chuck Chapman

>Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 08:22:20 -0400
>From: Linda Mann <lmann@volfirst.net>
>Subject: [iris] Re: HYB: Abbey Road pigments
>
>It will be interesting to see the results of looking at all these yellow
>looking pigments with your new gadget.  How far away from results are
>you?
>
>Whatever pigment wound up in the alcohol was <not> dissolving in the hot
>water (I did a <lot> of rinsing), but was readily soluble in the alcohol
>and not soluble in oil.  I'm not disagreeing that it <is> soluble in hot
>water, just that it <wasn't>, for whatever reason.
>
>I'm too ignorant to make up reasons - leave that up to you and Neil.
>Either it was chemically less soluble (i.e., a different pigment),
>protected mechanically (in another tissue maybe - veins vs intervein,
>inner cell vs outer layer), or maybe chemically bound to something
>else).  My guess is mechanical, since I'm not totally macerating the
>petals first, & maybe the alcohol is better able to get into the tissues
>than the water.  Which matches what you  suggest.
>
><  The pigment left in the alcohol is probably part of the water soluble
>yellow that didn't get extracted the first time, rather then a third
>pigment. . >
>
>Is there a pathway that would explain deterioration from greenish yellow
>pigment to a pinkish one?  Or from invisible to pinkish <g>?
>
><Some pigments are unstable and will deteriorate after a few days (or
>even hours eg anthocyanin in alcohol that is not acidified)>
>
>I had <no> problems with emulsions when I was using isopropyl alcohol
>and safflower oil - the specific gravities of the two were farther apart
>than the lamp oil (paraffin oil) and isopropyl.  But as you pointed out,
>all vegetable oils have little bit of pigment to them.  Safflower oil is
>nearly clear and works fine for strongly pigmented blooms, but wouldn't
>work for these pale yellows.
>
>< I had problems with emulsions until I started using combination of
>clear lamp oil, which is a light oil, and methyal hydrate which is a
>strong alcohol  (solvent) and with the two I get good separations. Old
>flowers will produce some emulsions in best senarios.
>
>Chuck, are you going to eventually be able to sort out some of the
>xanthophylls and be able to tell us what color they look, both in the
>bloom and in extractions?
>
> <                   3) The colour of standards looks very smooth,
>delicate and  even in tone and in this shading is more like an
>xanthophyll, a biproduct of carotene.
>
>                   Chuck Chapman>
>
>- --
>Linda Mann east Tennessee USA zone 7/8
>E

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