Re: Re: REB: cycle vs other

<<"oncers">>

By virtue of the name, it would seem to me that "oncers" only bloom in the
spring.  I've always thought that supposed "oncers" that put up off-season
bloom are simply "sporadics" that were previously hiding/undetected.
Hybridizers in the warmer climates have knowledge of these traits long before
those of us in the colder zones.

According to things I've read, in the right location and with the proper
triggers,
most irises have the potential for sporadic off season bloom.

If there is one things I've learned about rebloomers in 24 years of breeding
it is to expect the unexpected!   You can grow an iris for 15+ years and still
not know it's full potential.  Other places, other conditions equal other
results.

Seedling from Mountain Sunrise x Decadence has five increases already where
sibings do not.  (only 5) If it blooms, I should cross it to something that
has strong summer rebloom here?

Betty Wilkerson
KY-zone 6

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Mann <lmann@lock-net.com>
To: iris@hort.net
Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 1:12 pm
Subject: [iris] Re: REB: cycle vs other


Betty's comments seem to apply here as well - a cultivar may be increasing a
lot, yet not put up any stalks at all until some unknown (to me) combination
of fertility, temperature scenario, pH, aeration of roots?, you name it, come
together to suit.

I'm always surprised to hear QUEEN DOROTHY described as such a reliable
rebloomer, summer included. It was so unhappy here, I finally got rid of the
few scraps remaining. But I'm pretty sure it does well for others in this
general area (places where borers thrive <g>)

Chuck, what do you make of "oncers" that produce more than one stalk on mother
rhizomes during spring bloom? One in the terminal fan, usually only a few days
ahead of one or more on side fans? Do you think these are genetically cycle
rebloomers where the terminal didn't get a chance to bloom the preceeding
fall/winter? That makes some sense to me - often the terminal stalk will have
more late freeze damage than the lateral ones. Or are they basically "winter"
bloomers? Or is that what late cycle bloomers are in general? Do they bloom
off and on all winter in mild winter climates?

Betty said:
<This agrees with my observations. I do believe the sporadic and "whenever"
could be the same with variations in strength and/or modifiers. Sporadics
freely bloom in warmer zones, occasionally, but rarely, blooming for me (and
others) in zone 6. The stronger "whenevers" are much more likely to bloom
here, sometimes in July and August. A problem I see with Immortality and a few
others, here in my garden, is a very poor stalk to fan ratio. Rapid increase
does not always equate good rebloom, here. Or even good spring bloom.
Apparently, there are many variables that trigger rebloom on the "whenevers."
>

Chuck said:
<At times it takes close observation to distinguish what type of rebloomer you
have. A plant that reblooms later in season may be a summer rebloomer
genetically, but not have had size earlier in season to trigger bloom. So you
would need to have noted that it was at size (leaf maturity) to have summer
rebloom, and have it sit there and not rebloom when opportunity presents.
Opportunity based on weather factors, but you can use plant markers such as
Immortality and Queen dorothy as markers.

Also you can have Fall cyclic rebloomers put up a summer bloom, but on a fan
that should have bloomed in spring, but was just missing all factors needed.
You can tell this by checking rhizome to see if it is a mother fan blooming or
an increase. If on a mother fan, then consider this to not be a summer
rebloomer, until you get a summer bloom on an increase.

There is absolutly no doubt in my mind that Summer Rebloomers and Fall cyclic
rebloomers are different genetically. I had made numerous crosses of Forever
Blue with summer rebloomers, nary a rebloom seedling out of hundreds of
seedlings. Many rebloomers out of FB X fall cyclic rebloomers. Far far past
any level of significance you could apply to this.

Many instances of Fall cyclic rebloomers from cross of Fall cyclic rebloomers
X oncers. George Sutton had written and article on this a couple of years
back.

Chuck Chapman>

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