Re: REB: HYB: rebloom breeding
iris@hort.net
  • Subject: Re: REB: HYB: rebloom breeding
  • From: L* M* <1*@rewrite.hort.net>
  • Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 17:12:17 -0500
Could you name at least one example? You keep saying 'many' and 'it' and I'm really curious as to who they were and what they tried. I have a feeling we aren't really disagreeing with each other, but would like to be sure I know what you are referring to. 

On 11/26/2014 2:15 PM, Chuck Chapman wrote:

and many people have  tried it.
Monty Byers introduced a lot, as did Hager. Hagers have been weaker growers for me in general, but Feed Back keeps trucking along, as do its babies. And yes, judging from Betty's introductions and what I've seen of Mary Lou's seedling photos and what I've seen in my own garden.
Like Betty, I'm confused about which 'preferential' rebloomers you are talking about - there are some in the checklist that have only been reported from zone 8/9 CA <or> Oz, but many more that were bred in zone 8/9 dry summer areas that have been reported to sporadically bloom here and there in other zones, including wet summer or cold winter areas.
I don't think Byers used any parents that <only> rebloomed in CA or Oz, but pretty sure he used those that rebloomed reliably in dry summer zone 8/9 to cross with more reliable eastern cold/wet hardy rebloomers. [well, after chasing thru the checklist, it looks like Byers <did> use things that have been reported to only bloom in CA] 


So where are the results?
Ok, now that I agree with - as long as it's just the rebloom genetics. But I don't agree (yet) that it hasn't "advanced" the interaction of rebloom genes with their temperature trigger requirements. But that would not be a cold climate advance, only a southern advance. 


And any  evidence that it has advanced   the  Rebloom genetics?
I'll root through the Byers registrations, but the obvious one is Tea Leaves. = Sky Hooks X Violet Classic. The registration says it starts blooming CA in October, but it has rebloomed in Aug here. 2008 checklist reports it reblooming in zones 5-10, across the US.
Violet Classic is a good ol' cold climate reliable rebloomer, has given at least one August rebloom seedling here from IMM X Violet Classic. Only three seedlings lived, only one lived long enough to evaluate rebloom, so no ratios, but presumably both recessive 'summer' rebloomers. ?
Sky Hooks has been reported to rebloom in zone 9 only, CA, BC and Germany (odd distribution, and surely the zone for BC and Germany is just omitted (not US)). Sky Hooks is in the ancestry of 44 registered rebloomers, 32 by Byers. It was introduced by Melrose Gardens in CA. It's from Wedding Vow X Moon Mistress, both also bred in CA. Moon Mistress is reported to rebloom in CA, no reports for Wedding Vow. Byers registered 7 rebloomers from Moon Mistress.
Tasco's Mariposa Skies is (Wedding Vow x Violet Miracle (cold climate everywhere)) X Glistening Icicle (CA, MO reb). 

etc
Byers used a seedling from (Cease-Fire X Skyhooks) quite a bit, not in the rebloom checklist of course - anybody have an old Byers catalog that talks about the seedling?
Cease-Fire is reported to rebloom in AZ, CA, MO, TX & Netherlands, zones 7-10
Tea Leaves has given me a number of early rebloom seedlings that are reliable and very strong growers here - branching is awful, but it has given me something to mix with the IMM seedlings to recapture 'summer' rebloom phenotype. I used it early on, have just gotten back to really working with it.
I'm not guessing that the rebloom genes of CA rebloomers are a unique 'type' they seem to be a mix of recessive summer and other types of rebloom (just like Zurbrigg rebloomers), most without 4 doses of the recessive type, and with a different high temperature trigger tolerance. 

I really don't know - which is why I brought it up, again.
You keep asking what benefit is there to using these things. They have pollen. They are fertile. They contribute wider form and better substance. Something that is in short supply here.
I'm really sorry I asked - I wasn't trying to start an argument, just want to know who those 'many' breeders were and what they did and if it's documented somewhere so I could see how it fits or doesn't fit with my experiences. 

Linda Mann


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