iris@hort.net
- Subject: Re: Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
- From: B* G* <6*@rewrite.hort.net>
- Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 15:51:29 -0600
I _have_ been following this argument and have learned a lot. I
have had a tiny bit of rebloom here in Northern New Mexico where any
rebloom is unusual. It has helped me understand all the different
thing rebloomer jcan mean. I had been somewhat mystifyied about the
difference among Double Your Fun, Immortality, and Plum Wine. They all
rebloomed a second ( and sometimes third and fourth) time. Now I see
that there are different genes involved and different types of rebloom.
It doesn't bother me that you all are not in agreement. I am
learning a lot anyway. Who can tell when the break thru will come? My
experience is that nature is full of surprises!
Keep on crossing and keep on discussing. I am enjoying it.
Betty G. in New Mexico
On 10/3/2014 12:32 PM, Chuck Chapman wrote:
> The term coastal rebloomers is not a term I use , but was responding
> to a post using that term.
>
> Basically, if an iris is reported as reblooming in zone 8 and 9 but
> not regularly in cooler climates, it would be a facilitative
> vernalization rebloomer, depending on a long growing season to rebloom.
>
> Good fall cyclic include Northward Ho, Pink Attraction , English
> Cottage, Lilac Stitchery, Dorcus Lives Again and Red Revival , for
> examples. Basically you are looking at ones that perform in Zones
> 4-7, after heat of summer has past. some of these ones such as
> Immortality and Queen Dorothy are summer rebloomers.
>
> This way of looking at genetics of rebloomers is my theory, based on
> much time looming at all this, studying bloom trigger scientific
> information, and crosses made. You won't find much on this, although
> back issue s of Reblooming Recorder has some of my articles.
>
> Chuck Chapman
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geneva Coats <4e56e7df1@rewrite.hort.net>
> To: iris <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Fri, Oct 3, 2014 2:21 pm
> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>
> Chuck, I am new to all this and since I live in California, we do have
> a long
> blooming season. However, I live in the inland valley where it freezes at
> night for about two months every year, and the summers can approach 110
> degrees. I do not have a "coastal" climate here, nor do most people in
> California. Granted, we are not in a "Deep freeze" area like the
> midwest or
> east coast, but there are many plants that can be grown in a true coastal
> climate that can't survive here in the inland valley where I live. I
> suspect
> that the TN-KY area may have a climate somewhere in between the two
> extremes
> (mu husband is from western Kentucky)
> ?
> ?
> I would be interested in knowing
> some examples of plants that are "cyclic" rebloomers as opposed to
> "facilitative vernalization" rebloomers. Do you have specific
> cultivars that
> you have found good to work with?
> ?
> I just recently joined the Reblooming
> Iris Society. Would that sort of information be listed in the book
> that they
> offer for sale?
> ?
> Thanks! Geneva
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chuck Chapman <db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net>
> To: iris
> <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Fri, Oct 3, 2014 10:56 am
> Subject: Re: [iris]
> Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>
>
>
>
> Coastal rebloomer is being used to
> refer to the warm climate
> California rebloomers, that rebloom only in
> areas with long growing
> seasons. I call them "Facilitative vernalization"
> bloomers. Meaning
> that they bloom better when they have a cold period, but
> when they
> don't, they will bloom after about 5 months of growth after bud
> set.
> So if you don't get this long growing season, they don't
> "rebloom".
> These genes are useless in enabling fall cyclic rebloom genes,
> summer
> rebloom genes or the Whenever bloom genes..
>
> Chuck Chapman
> -----Original Message-----
> From: J. Griffin Crump
> <70cb46c31@rewrite.hort.net>
> To: iris <iris@hort.net>
> Sent:
> Fri, Oct 3, 2014 1:21 pm
> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
> Chuck -- I haven't been following this discussion closely. What do
> you
> mean by a "coastal" rebloomer? -- Griff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chuck Chapman
> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 9:57 AM
> To:
> iris@hort.net
> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>
> Any
> examples of rebloomers that can be attributed to crosses with
> coastal or
> occasional rebloomers?
>
> Based on what I know of genetics of rebloomers, I
> can't see any
> benefits. And possible deficits from bring in tender coastal
> genes.
>
> Rare events based on misfiring of bloom genes in response to
> rare
> growing conditions will not add anything beneficial to gene pool
> information. It will not give any information to aid breeding.
>
> You need
> basic rebloom genes plus good secondary characteristics, which
> include
> plant hardiness in many climates. Good performance in coastal
> areas doesn't
> translate into anything useful for harder climates..
>
>
> Chuck Chapman
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Betty Wilkerson
> <101n@rewrite.hort.net>
> To: iris <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Fri,
> Oct 3, 2014 9:38 am
> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
> Maybe it depends on the goal?
>
>
> If your goal is to collect irises that
> will
> have a GOOD chance of reblooming in your yard, then it would be
> advisable to
> collect those that rebloom, on a regular basis, in YOUR area.
> Learn
> from
> local gardeners. If none exist, you can learn by careful use of
> the
> checklist.
> If your goal is to improve or diversify the rebloom class,
> through
> breeding,
> perhaps you might want to venture a bit beyond the
> default rebloomers.
> ?? An
> occasional outcross to coastal rebloomers of
> stellar growth habits
> might be of
> benefit. I work specifically with tall
> bearded irises and I'm a bit
> too old
> to begin with inter class crosses
> etc.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <<Once in 20, of no
> value,
> except to be
> used as misleading information from the "Spring
> Gardens " of the
> world.
> And you can bet that they will use it.>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Betty
> Wilkerson
> Zone 6 KY
> autmirislvr@aol.com
>
>
>
>
> -----Original
> Message-----
> From: Chuck Chapman
> <db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net>
> To:
> iris <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Thu, Oct 2, 2014
> 8:16 pm
> Subject: Re:
> [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>
>
> For those people
> who have
> iris that rebloom regularly for them, they
> report. And then
> information
> is properly recorded. And expectations
> of various rebloom
> in various
> zones can be relied on. Once in 20
> years in zone 4 is not
> information
> that can be counted on.
>
> When you check the "rebloom" iris
> offered by
> Spring Garden and ilk,
> you find that they have used rebloom
> information
> from list , sometime
> along the process. When checking out some of
> their
> listing I found
> information such as one rebloomer sold in Canada was
> recorded as a one
> time event, of rebloom in Australia. No other rebloom
> reported. This
> iris (along with many other on their list) will never
> rebloom
> in
> Canada. Some don't even make it through first year. Many
> people by
> these collections, both in Canada and USA. When they don't have
> rebloom
> they then can give up on rebloomers. Several such comments
> on
> "Iris
> lovers" recently are very likely from this sort of practice.
>
> So
> a "once off"
> rebloom from one iris in one location, when reported
> as a
> reblooming iris
> can have unwanted effects. Even if it is once
> every
> three years , it gives
> useful information. Once in 20, of no
> value,
> except to be used as misleading
> information from the "Spring
> Gardens " of
> the world. And you can bet that
> they will use it.
>
> Chuck Chapman
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Betty
> Wilkerson
> <101n@rewrite.hort.net>
> To: iris <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Thu,
> Oct 2,
> 2014 4:46 pm
> Subject: Re: [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
> May be a
> matter of neuances, but . . . just because something doesn't
> rebloom
> in your
> yard doesn't mean they aren't rebloomers. My opinion.
> 'Forever
> Blue'
> doesn't rebloom here, but I don't question that it is a
> rebloomer
> . . .
> for
> you and others.
>
>
>
> <<A once off event
> of rebloom is exciting, and
> worth
> noting , but
> doesn't make that plant a
> rebloomer for me. I have over
> the
> years
> have had a good number of
> oncers put up an out of season or even
> twice
> a year bloom. these things
> can and do happen. <<<<
>
>
> Doesn't make it a
> rebloomer as
> far as I'm concerned.>>
>
>
> 'Victoria Falls' did fall bloom for me
> in Alvaton, in the 90's. It grew over 40 inches tall and I quit
> counting at
> 18 buds. Don't think it has done this since. It's my opinion that
> it's
> been
> proven to be a plus when breeding rebloomers. It contributed height,
> branching and improved flower form. Maybe there was another path?
> Maybe
> even
> a better path, but nothing else has proven to measure up.
>
>
> Betty
> Wilkerson
> Zone 6 KY
> autmirislvr@aol.com
>
>
>
>
> -----Original
> Message-----
> From:
> Chuck
> Chapman <db4f61431@rewrite.hort.net>
> To: iris <iris@hort.net>
> Sent: Thu,
> Oct
> 2, 2014 7:16 am
> Subject:
> [iris] Re: classifying as a Rebloomer
>
>
> Bloom
> triggers for plants are
> complicated, and you can occasionally get
> misfires. A
> number of years ago
> in our area some apple trees bloomed
> in fall. But a once
> off occurrence.
> Rebloom yes, but it doesn't make
> these apple trees
> rebloomers.
> Right now
> I have Victoria Falls in bloom, and on a 50" stalk,
> standing up
> straight
> and tall. But the only time it has fall bloomed in
> over
> 20 years of
> growing it. I'm not going to send in a rebloom report
> on it as it
> is a
> once
> off event. About 4 years ago I had a fall bloom
> on a clump of Best
> Bet. Again
> a once off event as it also has done
> this once in about 20
> years.
> I'm not
> going to list them as rebloomers
> for me in my zone 4
> garden. And
> having them
> listed as zone 4
> rebloomers would be inaccurate
> and deceptive.
> Not a
> behaviour you can
> rely on.
>
> On the other hand,
> my SDB Juiced Up is
> reblooming
> now on several
> clumps. I first had
> rebloom on Juiced Up about
> 2006, after
> initial
> bloom in 1998. It was
> interesting, but even if it had a
> rebloom
> parent,
> that still didn't make
> it a rebloomer. But in the past four
> years it
> has rebloomed three times.
> I'll now report it as a rebloomer for my
> climate
> zone.
>
> A once off
> event of rebloom is exciting, and worth noting ,
> but
> doesn't make that
> plant a rebloomer for me. I have over the years
> have had a
> good number
> of oncers put up an out of season or even twice
> a
> year bloom.
> these
> things can and do happen. Doesn't make it a
> rebloomer as
> far as I'm
> concerned.
>
> Chuck Chapman
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